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Join James & Rich on...THE CASH CRUSADE!

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  • pod1pod1
    edited December 2011
    gl

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  • unknown_usernameunknown_username
    edited December 2011
    Are you going to make some moves?
    Solid play so far but your profit is a one hand wonder!
    Could the difference between solid and awesome be you give credit to players where credit isn't due!
    Lets see some button experiments! With outrageous hands after all Tikay always says positon is 9/10ths of keeping a healthy bankroll
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  • RICHORFORDRICHORFORD
    edited December 2011
    Doing really well tonight-

    On my 10p/20p table I've trbeled up but now I'm doing some serious shortstacking.

    I'm on Red Sea where the blinds are 50p/£1

    and I've posted £10! The absolute bare minimum- 10BBs. The max is £100.

    First hand...
    PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
    RICHORFORD Small blind   £0.50 £0.50 £10.00
    CharlieF29 Big blind   £1.00 £1.50 £199.51
      Your hole cards
    • 9
    • 8
    		     
    VintageDP Fold        
    EVILEDNA Raise   £3.00 £4.50 £175.50
    alanisking Call   £3.00 £7.50 £114.27
    varney Fold        
    RICHORFORD All-in   £10.00 £17.50 £0.00
    CharlieF29 Fold        
    EVILEDNA Call   £7.50 £25.00 £168.00
    alanisking Call   £7.50 £32.50 £106.77
    Flop
       
    • A
    • A
    • 9
    		     
    EVILEDNA Check        
    alanisking Check        
    Turn
       
    • 3
    		     
    EVILEDNA Check        
    alanisking Check        
    River
       
    • 10
    		     
    EVILEDNA Check        
    alanisking Check        
    RICHORFORD Show
    • 9
    • 8
    		     
    EVILEDNA Muck
    • 6
    • 6
    		     
    alanisking Show
    • 10
    • J
    		     
    alanisking Win Two Pairs, Aces and 10s £30.87   £137.64

    So, lost the £10- immediately topped back up with another tenner and then this happened...
    PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
    VintageDP Small blind   £0.50 £0.50 £96.83
    EVILEDNA Big blind   £1.00 £1.50 £167.00
      Your hole cards
    • A
    • 10
    		     
    alanisking Call   £1.00 £2.50 £136.64
    varney Fold        
    RICHORFORD All-in   £10.00 £12.50 £0.00
    CharlieF29 Fold        
    VintageDP Fold        
    EVILEDNA Fold        
    alanisking Call   £9.00 £21.50 £127.64
    alanisking Show
    • J
    • 9
    		     
    RICHORFORD Show
    • A
    • 10
    		     
    Flop
       
    • 9
    • J
    • K
    		     
    Turn
       
    • 8
    		     
    River
       
    • Q
    		     
    RICHORFORD Win Straight to the Ace £20.42   £20.42
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  • RICHORFORDRICHORFORD
    edited December 2011
    Well, lost that £20 on the big table with an AK v QQ coup pre-flop.

    Gotta say it, it's not poker this shortstacking, it's hit and hope. That said, there is an art to it, you have to pick the right spot to get your opponent to call you and for it to be just one opponent, to improve your chances of your hand holding up. The major problem with sitting with stacks of £200 with just £10 is that everyone can call with careless abandon!

    I think on reflection losing my third all-in was a mistake on my part. I didn't push with the AK, I called. Thereby guaranteeing at best a race, at worst to be dominated, and the slimmest of slim chances of being up against AQ, AJ.

    All told so far then, sitting on the 10p/20p table with the max amount and playing ABC poker mostly has resulted in a treble-up and then some. £20 into £70+

    Sitting on the shortstack table got me a double up from my £25 to £41 and then losing £20 again by going up a few levels.

    So- total profit so far £57

    Back in a bit!
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  • RICHORFORDRICHORFORD
    edited December 2011
    In Response to Re: Join James & Rich on...THE CASH CRUSADE!:
    Are you going to make some moves? Solid play so far but your profit is a one hand wonder! Could the difference between solid and awesome be you give credit to players where credit isn't due! Lets see some button experiments! With outrageous hands after all Tikay always says positon is 9/10ths of keeping a healthy bankroll
    Posted by DUNMIDOSH
    I have been making some moves!

    I just don't show the bluff!

    For the most part though, I've been playing ABC poker with 100BBs to see if a boring steady approach is ultimately more profitable in the long run than a more exciting loose and creative approach as a shortstack at much higher levels.
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  • RICHORFORDRICHORFORD
    edited December 2011
    In play- 10BB shortie again- £20- this time on the £1/£2 table Mill Brow with DanTB10 to my left with £200! And the rest of the table on similar amounts!

    I'll report back...
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  • RICHORFORDRICHORFORD
    edited December 2011
    OK- going great guns on the big boys table- £20 into £140 in 30 minutes.

    Lost 2 buy-ins in short order so it's not for the faint hearted, but once i got the double-up I didn't look back and now I'm no longer playing ahort stack tactics!
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  • paige55paige55
    edited December 2011
    RICHORFORD CAN I HAVE SIGHED PHOTO OF YOU,WHAT A PLAYER YOU ARE XXXX PAIGE55 GOOD LUCK TO YOU ALWAY,S XXX
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  • paige55paige55
    edited December 2011
     I MUST SAY YOU ARE CUTE LOOKING, I WATCH YOU WHEN YOU ARE ON SKY TV POKER.XXXX
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  • paige55paige55
    edited December 2011
    I ONLY WATCH WHEN YOU ARE ON CHANNEL 865 XXX
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  • RICHORFORDRICHORFORD
    edited December 2011
    Lol- dunno if your account has been hijacked, Paige- but if you're serious- of course. Send your address to skyopen@bskyb.com along with your request and I'll happily do it! :-)
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  • RICHORFORDRICHORFORD
    edited December 2011
    OK- some very interesting lessons learned tonight...

    It's all very well shortstacking £20 on a table full of sharks on £200+ and then spinning it up into £150, but it's no-limit and there will be a cooler and you'll lose the lot at some point.

    If you're playing at your comfort level (which shortstacking suggests you're not) then it';s not so much of an issue loising so much cash, but in my case it was a bit of a blow.

    So, what's the answer? Do you get the double-up and then exit? Or try and crack on and turn it into a monster stack?

    Also, how many times of reloading your shortstack is permissible before you have to concede you'd be better off sticking that full amount on in the first place?

    I think I did 4 buy-ins in quick succession- I had to, I lost a few races when I went all-in pre-flop. But what if I had simply stuck down £80 instead and been dne with it? My range would have tightened and there wouldn;t have been much chance of me going all-in pre.

    Thoughts?
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  • paige55paige55
    edited December 2011
    OH BOTHER IS IT ,CHANNEL 685 , I DO FORGET, BUT I DONT FORGET YOU XXX, PHOTO OF YOU FROM SKY SANTA PLEASE , AND SIGHED LOVE RICH ORFORD , WITH  A KISS PLEASE XXXX THANK YOU XXXX YOU MUST STOP BEING SO CUTE LOOKING XXXX
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  • paige55paige55
    edited December 2011
    i have sent you a message rich,  xxxx
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  • RICHORFORDRICHORFORD
    edited December 2011
    Now playing on Joyville 20p/40p with the full buy-in of 100BBs- been on it for half an hour and have pretty much my stack intact...
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  • RICHORFORDRICHORFORD
    edited December 2011
    And that's me for tonight! Interesting evening.

    Was treading water on my final table with 100 BBs for ages and then all of a sudden I started playing it like I was shortstacked! Before I knew it I'd got it all-in on the flop with the nut flush draw.

    Was called by a set of 2s.

    Obv hit my nut flush on the turn.

    Opponent obv hit his house on the river.

    Lol! Game over!

    All told- I can see that shortstacking is to be done with money you feel comfortable losing, by taking shots at higher levels than your bankroll realistically permits. If you stick to that principle and pick your spot, you're effectively gambling on a double or nothing strategy. If that floats your boat and, let's face it, there's not much poker being played there, then go for it.

    I must say it's pretty exciting once you nurse your shortstack into a whopper, as I did manage to at one stage tongiht. but quite depressing when you then lose said whopping stack.

    The plus side is that you can console yourself that you only lost 20 quid instead of what looks to everyone else like 150 quid, because you only started on the table with 20 quid.

    Obviously the down side is that with 10BBs, realistically you have a max of 5 hands before you have to lump it in- and if you can't find something high-end with which to do so, then you have to settle for live-looking cards. A-2 off is not good (what sort of hand do you want to be called by?) 4-5 suited is much better, for example. And of course, everyone can afford to call you- meaning your AA gets called in 4 spots by Ace-cracking cards!

    Still haven't worked out if the best strategy is to double up and then immediately leave to do it again on a different table, or to stay where you are and slowly try and claw your way to the level of the other stacks on the table.

    All in all though- a useful experiment for me. Thanks to all the players and railers who joined me! :-)
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  • richtearichtea
    edited December 2011
    In Response to Re: Join James & Rich on...THE CASH CRUSADE!:
    And that's me for tonight! Interesting evening. Was treading water on my final table with 100 BBs and then for ages and then all of a sudden I started playing it like I was shortstacked! Before I knew it I'd got it all-in on the flop with the nut flush draw. Was called by a set of 2s. Obv hit my nut flush on the turn. Opponent obv hit his house on the river.
    Posted by RICHORFORD
    Pow, right in the kisser :)
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  • rancidrancid
    edited December 2011
    If your short stacking then why are you lumping all your winnings on a final table ?

    It would appear you just gambling and spinning up, the problem is there has to be a stop button otherwise you just keep going until you WILL go bust

    It like when do you press collect when you gambling on a fruit machine !!!!

    Spin up x3 then start again I would say

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  • IDONKCALLUIDONKCALLU
    edited December 2011
    its not orfords cash i dnt think so thats y he gambling :)
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  • rancidrancid
    edited December 2011
    In Response to Re: Join James & Rich on...THE CASH CRUSADE!:
    its not orfords cash i dnt think so thats y he gambling :)
    Posted by IDONKCALLU
    Then whats the point of this lol
    May aswell play the free money tables :D
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  • J-HartiganJ-Hartigan
    edited December 2011
    In Response to Re: Join James & Rich on...THE CASH CRUSADE!:
    And that's me for tonight! Interesting evening. Was treading water on my final table with 100 BBs and then for ages and then all of a sudden I started playing it like I was shortstacked! Before I knew it I'd got it all-in on the flop with the nut flush draw. Was called by a set of 2s. Obv hit my nut flush on the turn. Opponent obv hit his house on the river. Lol! Game over! All told- I can see that shortstacking is to be done with money you feel comfortable losing, by taking shots at higher levels than your bankroll permits. If you stick to that principle and pick your spot, you're effectively gambling on a double or nothing strategy. If that floats your boat and, let's face it, there's not much poker being played there, then go for it. I must say it's pretty exciting once you nurse your shortstack into a whopper, as I did manage to at one stage tongiht. but quite depressing when you then lose said whopping stack. The plus side is that you can console yourself that you only lost 20 quid instead of what looks to everyone else like 150 quid, because you only started on the table with 20 quid. Obviously the down side is that with 10BBs, realistically you have a max of 5 hands before you have to lump it in- and if you can't find something high-end with which to do so, the you have to settle for live-looking cards. A-2 off is not good (what sort of hand do you want to be called by?) 4-5 suited is much better for example. And of course, everyone can afford to call you- meaning your AA gets called in 4 spots by Ace-cracking cards! Still haven't worked out if the best strategy is to double up and then immediately leave to do it again on a different table, or to stay where you are and slowly try and claw your way to the level of the other stacks on the table. All in all though- a useful experiment for me. Thanks to all the players and railers who joined me! :-)
    Posted by RICHORFORD
    Sounds like you had a fun night!

    I agree with your sentiment that short-stacking doesn't feel like poker. There's no skill (or enjoyment) in flipping. And, long term, you don't stand to make a profit, if you're winning half the time and losing half the time.

    Shortly, I'll announce the them for Week 2 of the Cash Crusade...


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  • RICHORFORDRICHORFORD
    edited December 2011
    In Response to Re: Join James & Rich on...THE CASH CRUSADE!:
    In Response to Re: Join James & Rich on...THE CASH CRUSADE! : Sounds like you had a fun night! I agree with your sentiment that short-stacking doesn't feel like poker. There's no skill (or enjoyment) in flipping. And, long term, you don't stand to make a profit, if you're winning half the time and losing half the time. Shortly, I'll announce the them for Week 2 of the Cash Crusade...
    Posted by J-Hartigan
    Indeed. It reminded me a little of playing rebuy Bounty Hunters compared to deep-stack freeze-outs- or Twenty20 cricket compared to Test Series- it's not for the purists, but it's very exciting! And not everyone is in this game to grind away profits as if it's a chore.
    A lot of people play it for entertainment only.

    So sometimes it's fun to let your hair down and go for the spin-up. But you have to make sure it's money you're comfortable with losing in the first place.

    If you're serious about carving out a regular side income from the game though- playing with the maximum on the table is your best bet, giving you the maximum firepower for betting and maximising your return when you hit your hand. That and multi-tabling + effective bankroll management.

    May I suggest multi-tabling as either our next investigation or a future one, James? I'd be interested to discover where my tipping point is i.e. how many tables I can open up before it becomes unprofitable because i'm not playing them effectively.

    I reckon I could handle 4, if I'm not required to do any chatting(!) Any less might not be maximising my returns and minimising my variance. Any more and I might start spreading myself too thinly and not playing each table as effectively and profitably.

    What about everyone else? Thoughts on multi-tabling?
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  • DarntootinDarntootin
    edited December 2011
    In Response to Re: Join James & Rich on...THE CASH CRUSADE!:
    In Response to Re: Join James & Rich on...THE CASH CRUSADE! : Indeed. It reminded me a little of playing rebuy Bounty Hunters compared to deep-stack freeze-outs- or Twenty20 cricket compared to Test Series- it's not for the purists, but it's very exciting! And not everyone is in this game to grind away profits as if it's a chore. A lot of people play it for entertainment only. So sometimes it's fun to let your hair down and go for the spin-up. But you have to make sure it's money you're comfortable with losing in the first place. If you're serious about carving out a regular side income from the game though- playing with the maximum on the table is your best bet, giving you the maximum firepower for betting and maximising your return when you hit your hand. That and multi-tabling + effective bankroll management. May I suggest multi-tabling as either our next investigation or a future one, James? I'd be interested to discover where my tipping point is i.e. how many tables I can open up before it becomes unprofitable because i'm not playing them effectively. I reckon I could handle 4, if I'm not required to do any chatting(!) Any less might not be maximising my returns and minimising my variance. Any more and I might start spreading myself too thinly and not playing each table as effectively and profitably. What about everyone else? Thoughts on multi-tabling?
    Posted by RICHORFORD
    1?

    Only joshing Rich, your game seems to be improving quite nicely.
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  • J-HartiganJ-Hartigan
    edited December 2011
    Richard - your request is my command!

    Here's the theme for Week 2...


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  • J-HartiganJ-Hartigan
    edited December 2011
    MULTI-TABLING

    Is it better to play one table at a higher limit, or several tables at a slightly lower limit? How many tables can you comfortably play, and still make optimal decisions? Does multi-tabling lead to a more basic (TAG) style of play?


    On Monday (12th), I'll sit down at one of the 25p/50p Master Cash tables with £100. Later in the evening, I'll try spreading £100 across FIVE 10p/20p tables (buying-in for £20 at each table). Afterwards, I'll report back on my experiences and assess the impact on my bankroll!

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  • wynne1938wynne1938
    edited December 2011
    In Response to Re: Join James & Rich on...THE CASH CRUSADE!:
    MULTI-TABLING Is it better to play one table at a higher limit, or several tables at a slightly lower limit? How many tables can you comfortably play, and still make optimal decisions? Does multi-tabling lead to a more basic (TAG) style of play? On Monday, I'll sit down at one of the 25p/50p Master Cash tables with £100. Later in the evening, I'll try spreading £100 across FIVE 10p/20p tables (buying-in for £20 at each table). Afterwards, I'll report back on my experiences and assess the impact on my bankroll!
    Posted by J-Hartigan
    Sounds like you have money to burn!

    Research does cost money, but you learn from it in the long run and hence become stronger and wiser and hence a good poker player, but there will always be that LUCKBOX who will knock you off your pedestal!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Good luck James and Richard!
    I have had some terrible beats theses last two weeks in the main MTTs and Mini MTTS!
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  • rancidrancid
    edited December 2011
    Why don't you just give the money to the community and we can test your theories for you )

    Send me £100 and I'll let you know If I win or lose !!!

    Your jobs are way too EZ, why can't we get a job like that ?

    Seriously, as long as you can remember the action on the street before on each table for the hand your in then your ok.
    If it all starts to get a bit like "did he raise pre or did I" then your playing too many tables

    You should imo play more tables of a level you can beat, and add on levels you are trying to beat as they require more concentration. So spread across 3-4 tables, 3x10NL & 1x50NL for example

    have fun with that money





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  • RICHORFORDRICHORFORD
    edited December 2011
    In Response to Re: Join James & Rich on...THE CASH CRUSADE!:
    In Response to Re: Join James & Rich on...THE CASH CRUSADE! : 1? Only joshing Rich, your game seems to be improving quite nicely.
    Posted by Darntootin
    Lol! Cheeky, but highly amusing...
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  • RICHORFORDRICHORFORD
    edited December 2011
    I should point out that neither James or I keep any profits  made on the cash tables- so ultimately this is money put up by Sky which eventually makes it's way back into the players pockets when the presenters have a losing session.

    So yes, it's fun. But no, we don't gain from it.
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  • unknown_usernameunknown_username
    edited December 2011
    Quick Question:
    Are we going to see hands played on Master Cash tables on a special section of the show?
    Is their a forfeit for James when you beat him?
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