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is this cheating?

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  • 12671267
    edited January 2012
    In Response to Re: is this cheating?:
    In Response to Re: is this cheating? : Lol, well obv I didn't mean "Jamie Gold" style speech play to get a player to call your monster hand heads up. This is three way action, how can you possibly think this isn't cheating?
    Posted by JingleMa
    If it can be classed as cheating, its the smallest form of cheating ever, and doesnt effect the outcome.  Lets be honest, very very likely the guy didn't even see it in the chat box,  99 percent he was would of been calling anyway (if he did read it),  plus everybody with half a brain would check it down.   
    Lets say i'm playing Fifa with a friend, im 5-0 down, and in the last minute he goes to the toilet, i unpause it and score, i lose 5-1.  Ok, so ive "cheated" but it matters in noo way , its a complete moot point.   

    The guy didn't say it to cheat, he didn't attack or bully anyone, he didn't pass chips etc . . .  ,he probably didn't even realise he'd done anything wrong.
    Seeems alot of hassle about nothing to me, iv'e seen far far far worse in the chatbox !   
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  • gb2408gb2408
    edited January 2012
    Not teaching you how to suck eggs, but you really should just ignore them and play your own game.  If you can't help but be distracted by them, then your only option is to turn the chat window off. 

    I occassionally play live with friends and a couple of them, to put it blunty, talk absolute s***... Just have to learn to ignore them :)
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  • JingleMaJingleMa
    edited January 2012
    In Response to Re: is this cheating?:
    In Response to Re: is this cheating? : They try to educate you how to play good poker fairly, without seeing your opponents cards & without them having ur opponents openly tell you what they're gonna do. How do you know he would have called anyway? you've played enough hands on here to know people do alot of silly things.  Its the principal, nxt time the guy wants to cheat the situation might not be as straight forward. v strange post from a sng grinder! unless ofc ur just on the wind up. 
    Posted by DOHHHHHHH

    Must be this. Esp his comment about training sites - he's got us hook, line and sinker!

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  • JingleMaJingleMa
    edited January 2012
    In Response to Re: is this cheating?:
    In Response to Re: is this cheating? : If it can be classed as cheating, its the smallest form of cheating ever, and doesnt effect the outcome.  Lets be honest, very very likely the guy didn't even see it in the chat box,  99 percent he was would of been calling anyway (if he did read it),  plus everybody with half a brain would check it down.    Lets say i'm playing Fifa with a friend, im 5-0 down, and in the last minute he goes to the toilet, i unpause it and score, i lose 5-1.  Ok, so ive "cheated" but it matters in noo way , its a complete moot point.    The guy didn't say it to cheat, he didn't attack or bully anyone, he didn't pass chips etc . . .  ,he probably didn't even realise he'd done anything wrong. Seeems alot of hassle about nothing to me, iv'e seen far far far worse in the chatbox !   
    Posted by 1267

    Ok, I'll humour you and reply just in case you're being serious.

    Was what the Pakistani bowlers do last year cheating? What they did had zero impact on the outcome of the match, yet two of them are currently in jail.

    If you break the rules (intentionally or not), you are cheating. If the player had no idea he was breaking the rules and can convince the site / TD of this, then he should still receive a warning letting him know of the consequences if he ever does it again.

    I repeat from my earlier post - he wouldn't be able to do this in a live tournie, why should he get away with it online?

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  • EvilPinguEvilPingu
    edited January 2012
    In Response to Re: is this cheating?:
    In Response to Re: is this cheating? : Lets say i'm playing Fifa with a friend, im 5-0 down, and in the last minute he goes to the toilet, i unpause it and score, i lose 5-1.
    Posted by 1267
    I do this all the time, although I never go 5-0 down, of course.

    In Response to Re: is this cheating?:
    In Response to Re: is this cheating? : Was what the Pakistani bowlers do last year cheating? What they did had zero impact on the outcome of the match, yet two of them are currently in jail. If you break the rules (intentionally or not), you are cheating. 
    Posted by JingleMa

    Didn't effect that game, but if they'd got away with it, what's to say that one of them wouldn't have deliberately got out and Pakistan lost by 5 runs in the future? Equally, in this case if he's cheated but it hasn't effected the outcome, then what's to stop him doing that in the future in a situation where it will effect the outcome?

    @ OP, contacted customer care when something similar happened to me a couple of weeks back, I was all in, there was a side pot, and one of the players announced he had flopped a set and turned a full house in the chat box, then placed a min bet and the other guy folded. They apparently e-mailed the guy to remind him of etiquette and consequences if it happened again. Didn't effect the outcome but I'm sure if it had, then you'd probably get your buy-in back too?
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  • 12671267
    edited January 2012
    In Response to Re: is this cheating?:
    In Response to Re: is this cheating? : Ok, I'll humour you and reply just in case you're being serious. Was what the Pakistani bowlers do last year cheating? What they did had zero impact on the outcome of the match, yet two of them are currently in jail. If you break the rules (intentionally or not), you are cheating. If the player had no idea he was breaking the rules and can convince the site / TD of this, then he should still receive a warning letting him know of the consequences if he ever does it again. I repeat from my earlier post - he wouldn't be able to do this in a live tournie, why should he get away with it online?
    Posted by JingleMa
    The pakistan bowlers did what they did to gain a massive financial advantage.  Therefore this was both illegal and cheating. 

    At the end of the day cheating is a subjective process.

    Are footballers who dive at the slightest touch cheating ?   I know i'd dive to win a the world cup for my country ! 
    Are players on the site, who talk to each other all the time on facebook , msn etc...   and then avoid playing big hands with each other , is this cheating ?   e.g  A 4 handed DYM, a shortish stack shoves 1500,  blinds are 300/600 his mate has a 6k stack in the big blind,  hes not going to be calling as light V him, as he would v other players.  I think this is a much bigger problem then somebody typing in the chat box, a very standard play.     Like i said in the previous post,  he probably didn't even see it, and 99 percent it didn't influence his play.
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  • JingleMaJingleMa
    edited January 2012
    In Response to Re: is this cheating?:
    In Response to Re: is this cheating? : The pakistan bowlers did what they did to gain a massive financial advantage.  Therefore this was both illegal and cheating.  At the end of the day cheating is a subjective process. Are footballers who dive at the slightest touch cheating ?   I know i'd dive to win a the world cup for my country !  Are players on the site, who talk to each other all the time on facebook , msn etc...   and then avoid playing big hands with each other , is this cheating ?   e.g  A 4 handed DYM, a shortish stack shoves 1500,  blinds are 300/600 his mate has a 6k stack in the big blind,  hes not going to be calling as light V him, as he would v other players.  I think this is a much bigger problem then somebody typing in the chat box, a very standard play.     Like i said in the previous post,  he probably didn't even see it, and 99 percent it didn't influence his play.
    Posted by 1267

    Is it?

    If you dive and win a penalty, you've still cheated haven't you? Just cos the ref didn't see it and book you, does that mean you didn't cheat?

    It's not the outcome of the cheating that's relevant - it's the fact he cheated.


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  • 12671267
    edited January 2012

    In Response to Re: is this cheating?:

    In Response to Re: is this cheating? : Is it? If you dive and win a penalty, you've still cheated haven't you? Just cos the ref didn't see it and book you, does that mean you didn't cheat? It's not the outcome of the cheating that's relevant - it's the fact he cheated.
    Posted by JingleMa
    Lets say the guy was tugging my shirt, i could have maybe stayed on my feet, but decided to dive ,  is this cheating ? After all, he was fouling me right ?

    And yes, cheating is a subjective concept.  There are lots of examples where people could argue that it was or was not cheating , this is whyy cheating is so tough to crack down on.  
    Few moths ago, i had 2k in a dym, 2 other players had 1k ,  the big stack with 8k, basically said in the chat box he was going to make me lose (he held a grudge), he folded there blinds, raised mine, folded there all ins, called mine, in my view this was a form of cheating , as the other 2 players gained an advantage, sky ruled it otherwise.

    Theres a fine line between cheating and not,  and maybe this guy slightly overstepped the line, no biggy in my opinion, im sure if he knew he wasn;t meant to do what he did, then he wouldt do it again.

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  • ACEGOONERACEGOONER
    edited January 2012
    This matter of collusion in chat comes up time and again both in dyms and mtts. whilst reporting the culprits is the right thing to do sky have a responsbility to update the software so chat is locked for all in situations.

    I play mtts during the day on stars and this is never an issue.
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  • wenelinhowenelinho
    edited January 2012
    Cant believe this post caused so much devision in opinions.  

    As i have already said "I KNOW THIS PLAY IS STANDARD" but it looked for all the world as though he was going to fold running down the timer until it was mentioned in the chat box.  

    Anyway IT IS CHEATING whether it changes the outcome or not,  and i have reported it.

    Also I am not angry about loosing it happens i just dont think its right for people to be telling others what to do in the chat box.

    :)
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  • logdonlogdon
    edited January 2012
    In Response to Re: is this cheating?:
    In Response to Re: is this cheating? : Nice to see you are filisofical about it and hope you take it like a bad beat.  Had your moan we all agree with you,  move on.!  I did.  Hugs Annie xx
    Posted by logdon
    We all make mistakes  Philosophically not the end of the World.  You made your decision "Cheats shouldn't prosper"  But is it Revenge. Mmmm 
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  • adz777adz777
    edited January 2012
    if he typed it yeah it is, but if they didnt know it was standard to do it anyway they must be 2 very stupid players
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  • bigal36903bigal36903
    edited January 2012
    YES, TO SAY IN A CHAT BOX WHAT IS OBVIOUS IS BLATANT CHEATING..  LIKE WHEN SOMEONE SAYS STEAL THE GUY BLINDS . HE IS AWAY... ALSO CHEATING..

    IN BOTH CASES REG PLAYERS KNOW WHAT TO DO
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  • wenelinhowenelinho
    edited January 2012
    In Response to Re: is this cheating?:
    In Response to Re: is this cheating? : We all make mistakes  Philosophically not the end of the World.  You made your decision "Cheats shouldn't prosper"  But is it Revenge. Mmmm 
    Posted by logdon
    no it isnt revenge, as i have already said about 5 times it would not of changed the result, but it could of and this makes it cheating.  i dont think he should be allowed to do this again but maybe a full chat ban would be harsh.

    To touch on a point mentioned earlier this is the only site that allows chat during all in situations simple solution? 
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  • 12671267
    edited January 2012
    Remember when Frank lampard scored in the world cup, the germany players clearly knew it was goal, but they carried on and "cheated"  , ok it might not have changed the outcome, but after the game everybody was made aware and nothing was done (i.e cheaters wern;t punished).  This will be the case here !   wasting ur time even reporting it tbh.  
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  • igimcigimc
    edited January 2012
    In Response to Re: is this cheating?:
    Remember when Frank lampard scored in the world cup, the germany players clearly knew it was goal, but they carried on and "cheated"  , ok it might not have changed the outcome, but after the game everybody was made aware and nothing was done (i.e cheaters wern;t punished).  This will be the case here !   wasting ur time even reporting it tbh.  
    Posted by 1267
    Utter nonsense
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  • JingleMaJingleMa
    edited January 2012
    In Response to Re: is this cheating?:
    In Response to Re: is this cheating? : Lets say the guy was tugging my shirt, i could have maybe stayed on my feet, but decided to dive ,  is this cheating ? After all, he was fouling me right ? And yes, cheating is a subjective concept.  There are lots of examples where people could argue that it was or was not cheating , this is whyy cheating is so tough to crack down on.   Few moths ago, i had 2k in a dym, 2 other players had 1k ,  the big stack with 8k, basically said in the chat box he was going to make me lose (he held a grudge), he folded there blinds, raised mine, folded there all ins, called mine, in my view this was a form of cheating , as the other 2 players gained an advantage, sky ruled it otherwise. Theres a fine line between cheating and not,  and maybe this guy slightly overstepped the line, no biggy in my opinion, im sure if he knew he wasn;t meant to do what he did, then he wouldt do it again.
    Posted by 1267

    I understand where you're coming from in terms of "grey areas" in the rules of any game which players try to exploit. But cheating is not subjective, it is doing something which is against the rules/laws of the game.

    The op asked if what happened to him was cheating, and as open collusion is clearly against the rules, the answer is yes. You were unlucky in that game vs the guy with the grudge - but he didn't directly collude with any other player, merely picked on you - which he is entitled to do under the rules. (Even though it may be seen as unsporting, he can do what he wants with his own chips).

    Also, it is not any German player's responsibility to award England a goal - so again, they might have been 'unsporting', but didn't break any rules and therefore did not cheat. Don't think Eng would have been rushing to the ref to overturn the decision if it had happened at the other end, do you?

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  • TrolololTrololol
    edited January 2012
    tl;dr
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  • 12671267
    edited January 2012
    In Response to Re: is this cheating?:
    In Response to Re: is this cheating? : I understand where you're coming from in terms of "grey areas" in the rules of any game which players try to exploit. But cheating is not subjective, it is doing something which is against the rules/laws of the game. The op asked if what happened to him was cheating, and as open collusion is clearly against the rules, the answer is yes. You were unlucky in that game vs the guy with the grudge - but he didn't directly collude with any other player, merely picked on you - which he is entitled to do under the rules. (Even though it may be seen as unsporting, he can do what he wants with his own chips). Also, it is not any German player's responsibility to award England a goal - so again, they might have been 'unsporting', but didn't break any rules and therefore did not cheat. Don't think Eng would have been rushing to the ref to overturn the decision if it had happened at the other end, do you?
    Posted by JingleMa
    Cheating is subjective.

    a person who acts dishonestly, deceives, or defrauds is classed as a cheat. Braking rules is only one small form of cheating.
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