First hand in the clinic, bet sizing?

nickd49931

MacLik Small blind  £0.02 £0.02 £2.45 Vhorner94 Big blind  £0.04 £0.06 £4.83  Your hole cards K K    dionysis Call  £0.04 £0.10 £3.75 nickd49931 Raise  £0.16 £0.26 £4.17 saika Call  £0.16 £0.42 £4.07 MacLik Fold     Vhorner94 Fold     dionysis Call  £0.12 £0.54 £3.63 Flop  Q 8 9    dionysis Check     nickd49931 Bet  £0.32 £0.86 £3.85 saika Call  £0.32 £1.18 £3.75 dionysis Fold     Turn  K    nickd49931 Bet  £0.76 £1.94 £3.09 saika Call  £0.76 £2.70 £2.99 River  4    nickd49931 Bet  £1.16 £3.86 £1.93 saika All-in  £2.99 £6.85 £0.00 nickd49931 Fold     saika Muck     saika Win  £4.64  £4.64 saika Return  £1.83 £0.38 £6.47

Thought i'd post a hand, hopefully it pastes in ok..

Played maybe a few thousand hands~ at 4NL i'd imagine and was a not fun folding the river but it was a snap all in and just felt beat. Not too fussed about that either way though just wanted to hear some thoughts on bet sizing. Up until lately i've not really looked through hands all that much but this one caught my eye cause i felt maybe i should have bet more on most streets. Any advice?

unknown_username

omg why did you fold river

Lambert180

Preflop I'd go to like 20-24p minimum.

Bit bigger on the flop, bit bigger on the turn and shove the river, don't ever fold.

benc

I see where your coming from nick in this kind of spot it can really feel like a j10 or a runner flush and the amount of times it seems you call that shove on the river and they flip the nuts can be painful, however our set is too big to fold i think, depending on the opponent you have to get it in here as unless you know for a fact he wouldn't shove the river without the absolute nuts and is like the nittiest of nits. Even then i think your a bit too commited in terms of what you have put into the pot, there are so many hands your beating as well e.g. all the two pair combos like q9 q8 89 all the sets 8s 9s 4s, if he flips the flush or j10 then just consider it a cooler and don't worry about it.

Bet sizing pre and on the flop seems fine to me if you have been consistently betting all your hands like that. I think once i get called on the flop i'm firing the turn big probably just potting it to set up a shove on the river.

RyanC7

its 4nl. you have a set lol. I would rather die than fold there.

nickd49931

Yeah all i really wanted to know was points on bet sizing lol, obviously i felt beat so i folded. Of course i have the best had enough of the time to warrant a call. But because i bet it pretty weak i felt like i had enough room to fold knowing that this guy wasn't doing this too often with 2 pairs/worse sets. Just wanted advice on whether i should have fired more an all streeets so i didnt leave any room to bet weak on the riv an fold. Cheers chaps

rancid

bet more on all streets, it's nl4 they will pay u

SHANXTA

more pre, slightly more flop + turn, jam river, win money

craigcu12

nick when you fold things like this it causes you more problems.
becuase you folded a set here just because the villian has shoved on the river, it makes bluffs easier to be made by villians.
if your very scared of the flush and straights the best thing to do would have been check on the river and the villian himself might think your waiting for him to bet just so you can shove meaning he might go smaller.
but the best thing would be to always do bets of about 20p preflop with these sort of hands and to help avoid making my hands always being premium i also include the pairs 99 10 10 KQo KJo and QJs as well.

ballboy

I don't think I would ever fold there on the river. If they have flopped straight or rivered a flush I would say fair play and move on. You have to look at it in terms of big blinds rather than cash, but you are beating an exact hand and a backdoored hand and you have also put have your stack in. Fair play to the guy if he has bluffed you there though - winning £2 without a showdown. (sorry if that sounds a rubdown) I have played 2/4p recently after a really bad run at the higher levels and its not difficult at all. You can lose 2 buyins straight away and still win over the session because there are players who will give their money to you with nothing.

I like the Preflop raise size (3x +1 for your limper) and it makes it easier to balance your range with your other hands. Do you want to raise 5x with 4-5 suited, every pair in your range, any two broadways etc and then be stuck when someone 3bets you to 60p (odd preflop). Other option is raising smaller with your marginal hands, but then you are too easy to play against.

beaneh

once you don't jam river, (I prefer slightly bigger turn jam all rivers but w/e) once you don't jam I think b/f is probably fine.

BorinLoner

With the pot odds you're being offered to call the raise on the river, I think I'd be calling. We're getting odds of 21% so we only have to beat 1/5 hands in his range to make the call break even. I don't know the player, though, so he might never be putting the rest in with a lower set or two-pair. If you know this to be the case, then it's a nice fold.

However, I don't like putting ourselves in the position to see this raise. As Beaneh says, in the long-term we're better off betting more on the turn to set up a pot-sized (or preferably just less than pot-sized) shove on the river. So betting perhaps 90p on the turn would be a tad better.

It's only nit-picking about the turn bet, really, but on the river I think we definitely want to be shoving for value. We have to see our £1.16 bet called more than twice as often as the full £2.99 to make it a better bet and I doubt that's going to be the case.

When we make the smaller bet we don't save enough on the few occasions that we manage to get away from a better hand to make up for the money we lose when we're flat-called by worse hands, which would call for more. It's also possible that we fold the best hand some of the time if we don't have rock-solid reads on the opponent.

percival09

go bigger each street - fwiw your fold otr actually shows quite good potential for a 4nl player :-)

liamboi11

yeah like others have said more money in each street, also don`t think I fold here in this spot but it does show you can fold a big hand which could be useful when you move up in stakes.