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can i ever fold this????

dappadondappadon
edited March 2013 in The Poker Clinic
PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalancedappadonSmall blind 200.00200.0031553.75joesman1Big blind 400.00600.0030791.25 Your hole cards10K   GuardC4tFold    GIVEITSOMEFold    bubuvaleFold    VGOOCHFold    dappadonRaise 600.001200.0030953.75joesman1Call 400.001600.0030391.25Flop  9QJ   dappadonBet 800.002400.0030153.75joesman1All-in 30391.2532791.250.00dappadonAll-in 30153.7562945.000.00dappadonUnmatched bet 562.5062382.50562.50dappadonShow10K   joesman1Show24   Turn  6   River  10   joesman1WinFlush to the Queen62382.50 62382.50PrevClose windowNext
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Comments

  • bbMikebbMike
    edited February 2013
    I'd be folding here all day long! You have a pretty hand, but that's about it.

    Nothing wrong with a bet on flop but out of position I'd consider a fold to any raise let alone all-in. What you do know for sure is that if you call you need to catch up. Best case then is they have no spade at all, that's only feasible if they've flopped a set given their bet and in that case you'll have 17 outs but with board pairings to dodge. That's best case! Sometimes it's more important to think about what you can use your chips for in future hands, you've got 75BBs what's the rush?

    He can also have a flush made in which case you're either wanting one of the 6 remaining spades if he's in with 9x suited or below, or he's got the flush holding better than a 10 and then you're drawing to only 2 cards for your straight flush! His range also includes a pair with ace or king of spades, in which case you're down to 8 straight outs.

    So.. the shove might look bluffy but you don't really have the cards to find out, and there are going to be better spots to spend 75BBs. A pretty hand but should go in the bin.

    PS - my first attempt at giving my view on someone else's hand so happy to be told this is complete BS but makes sense to me! GL.
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  • dappadondappadon
    edited February 2013
     yeah lookin bk now i really could off waited for a better spot. plus i didnt think enough about what he might off had   he shuffd it all in really quick after my cbet  which at the time made me beleive i was good   so fair play 2 the guy .   cheers fella for the reply and run at the tables
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  • dappadondappadon
    edited February 2013
    run good    lol
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  • bearlytherbearlyther
    edited February 2013
    dont ever fold here snap that all day long. 

    When you post a hand up you shouldnt include the result of the hand as it gets results orientated replies.
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  • DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH
    edited February 2013
    Wish I was as good as joesman :D 

    Poker sux when this happens. 

    Played fine, never ever fold. 
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  • bbMikebbMike
    edited February 2013
    Bearly, really? What are they shoving with that we're ahead of? Only a set or two pair that don't like the suited board? Genuinely interested as I know you're a top player. If we think think they're capable of such a huge play with complete air fair enough but a big price if we're wrong and would it not be better to wait for them to pull the same move when we're stronger? 75 bigs would feel a big risk to me.
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  • bbMikebbMike
    edited February 2013
    Dappardon sorry mate, I would listen to the regs I have a lot to learn! Find it interesting to share views and review hands (before seeing the outcome) and have never posted my thoughts before as usually someone more credible has replied, and here I thought it was an obvious fold!! I guess the others suggest that such a huge shove comes from a bluff more often than not because a stronger hand than ours will make it easier for us to stay in the hand? Anyway, I'm sure there's more to it! Good luck at the tables!
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  • bearlytherbearlyther
    edited February 2013
    A small flush like this is definately in his range as sometimes people shove like this when there scared.  However i still think theres plenty of hands in their range that we beat getting scared with 2 pair etc the shove just looks so spewy and we have a chance to go for a huge stack in the tourney thats why i call.  
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  • bbMikebbMike
    edited February 2013
    Errrrr I missed the fact we had a made straight. I'm back in my box. This changes everything! Now we're ahead of top pair with big spade kicker! I feel terrible, knew there was a reason I'd not shared my views before - ignore my first post entirely (unless you want advice on whether we have say 10 spades with 3hearts haha!) 

    #embarrassing
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  • BorinLonerBorinLoner
    edited March 2013
    +1 to bearlyther and DOHHHHHHH

    If we've seen this opponent make this overshove before and they've always had a big made hand, then we can consider folding.

    If his range can include a flush draw, a set, two-pairs and possibly even the weaker straight or the same hand, then we should call because against that range we will be a favourite.
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  • dappadondappadon
    edited March 2013
    lookin bk aswell the villian had been so loose an agro  i really did just snap him off without even thinkin 
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  • danboy22danboy22
    edited March 2013

    im not folding there

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  • goodylad21goodylad21
    edited March 2013
    Ive been looking at the hand for the last 5 mins & im still unsure if id call. Joesmans shove would of really confussed me & I probably would of timed out lol.

    Probably is a call, but one which i would struggle to make with such a healthy stack.
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  • F_IvanovicF_Ivanovic
    edited March 2013
    Yes you can. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LA9YLplSiuw

    Whether or not you have the reads to do so is another matter. I see a lot of players make this play with a low flush but then these same players might also make the play with sets/straights/2 pair hands or even a bare As with a fd. So based on that whole range you should probably call. That said this is a tournament so if you think you can wait for a better spot (and with that many bb's you probably can) then I don't mind a fold and just take a note of that player.
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  • dappadondappadon
    edited March 2013
    wow ivanovic just watched that link  that romanello fold is the sickest fold ive ever seen ... how has he folded that 
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