Set mining with Jacks 3 handed NL20

The_Don90

Opponent isnt one ive played with alot, but seen them a few times on tv, in the few times i have played with them they have been extremely tight. This time is no exception, since going 3 handed this is the first 3b. And i think their first open for a long time. 

If included results to show i was sticking to my guns of a set mine. Curious if this play is ever correct? 

layerActionCardsAmountPotBalancescottyb661Small blind £0.10£0.10£13.56The_Don90Big blind £0.20£0.30£29.28 Your hole cardsJJ   xRaise £0.60£0.90£19.88scottyb661Fold    The_Don90Raise £1.60£2.50£27.68xRaise £4.20£6.70£15.68The_Don90Call £3.00£9.70£24.68Flop  374   The_Don90Check    xBet £5.40£15.10£10.28The_Don90Fold    xMuck    xWin £9.21 £19.49xReturn £5.40£0.49£24.89

NColley

You've called 25% of the effective stack pre flop looking for 2 outs! (we have roughly 20% equity if we see all five cards and believe we are facing an overpair)

Current and implied odds not there imo.

19MUFC19

My opinion of you the time ive played you is that you raise alot.... So id of done this against you pre with most pocket pairs, and obviously AK

liamboi11

I don`t like set mining with such a strong hand , there is a couple things I do here but it player dependant if opponent is really tight and I know they are only going to fold or 4bet my 3bet I just flat the initial raise pre and play through the streets see what happens each street and how they react to each card and what their bet sizing is like etc.

but as played when you 3bet and then get 4bet and knowin their range is really narrow just fold pre. So basically only 3bet if you think this opponent will call with worse for example pairs/aj+/broadway cards/suited connectors etc if they don`t just flat the initial raise imo.

hope this makes sense and helps m8.

F_Ivanovic

Sorry but you played this hand pretty bad. First mistake was 3betting against a player who's opening range is very tight. If you want to set-mine, then do it by just calling the initial raise. Although with jacks, even against a tight player you can still continue on a low board if it's a sr pot by calling at least one street.

Second mistake was then calling the 4bet to set-mine. You only flop a set ~ 1 in 8 times so for the extra amount you put in, you need to be able to win at least 8 times that to make it break-even. That's assuming villain never gets away from his overpair. Sometimes he might have KK and the flop comes AJx in which case you don't win his stack. Other times you might get set over set.

benc

I would either 3bet to fold to a 4bet because of reads on this opponent or flat the initial raise and then re-evaluate on flop and turn, that would only be against very few players though as we are 3 handed so they are probably opening a bit wider if they are any good. Lets say you had 3bet pocket 2s in this spot and was 4bet would you make the call to set mine? Your hand is very big but not if you are narrowing there 4bet range down to overpairs to your Js. FWIW i probably end up going over the top on that flop and getting stacked, so at least you had the discipline to go with your read and fold to what would normally be a great flop for Js.

BorinLoner

Nothing wrong with set-mining JJ in principle, if we're sure the raiser has a super-tight range.

However, we're about 7.5:1 to hit our set so the £3 call is only break even if we can win at least £22.50 more. Even that is only enough to break even if we always have the best hand with our set and we always get the full amount. So in real terms your break even pot odds, unless you're calling all-in, need to be considerably higher than 7.5:1.

The maximum amount we can win here when making this £3 call is the pot plus the opponent's stack. That's £6.70 + £15.

So just by the numbers, this set-mine is -EV.

Obviously that means it should be a 5-bet shove or a fold pre-flop, depending on our view of the opponent. Since you think he's tight, it's a fold.

When you made the 3-bet, which type of hands did you think he's going to flat with, which does he fold and which does he 4-bet?

percival09

only 3bet if villain is going to be 4bet bluffing quite a bit or if he's calling with worse hands. don't 3bet if villain is only 4betting better hands or just folding. we don't want to turn such a strong hand into a bluff. 

with these stacks set mining in a 3bet pot is definitely not profitable. 3b/f jj sucks but one mistake does not mean we should make another, i think we should just fold to the 4bet and realise we played it bad and learn from it. If we think villain does 4bet light/as a bluff we should just 5bet shove