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poker and golf??????

edited December 2009 in Poker Chat
The poker scene has grown immensely in the last few years as many new players have entered the poker world. But the poker world is a predatory one, with concepts of evolution and natural selection in full force. The strong survive and the weak go broke and find other pastimes.

Nobody takes up golf and plays like Tiger Woods. But for some reason, many new players come to the poker world expecting that they can and will do well with little practice and preparation. The fact is, many, many people enjoy golf, with no expectation of playing on a competitive professional level. They, we, actually, as I am a bit of a duffer myself an play for the fun of it. And that is how it should be. Of course, there's an element of competitive drive. Whatever we undertake, we like to do well. Some people have more competitive spirit than others, but pretty much everyone would rather win than lose. And poker is like golf in that way.

And like golf or any other competitive endeavor, practice and preparation make your game better, and increase your chances of besting your opponents. And also like golf, there are some basics that you just have to know, both for the game to be fun and for you to have a chance to win.

If you are new to the game, you need to learn how to play. If you don't have some clue, poker will be an expensive hobby and no fun. Like most things in life, there is a hard way and an easy way to learn. You can try to acquire poker skills from experience, the school of hard knocks, learning from your errors and trying to get a conceptual feel for the game by expending effort and time to do so. For some it is an effective school, but reading and discussing poker can dramatically shorten the time and cost to develop skills. Finding and studying quality books or getting a mentor who has the ability, time, and desire to help you with your game is a much faster road to prosperity.

That said, there are some basic errors that many people who are new to the game seem to make, errors that are quite easy to avoid. Most of these players play way too many hands. They are just excited to be there and wanna play. But correct poker strategy requires patience to wait for good situations. Experienced players have the knowledge to differentiate between playable and unplayable situations. Inexperienced players do not, and for that reason, if you are new to the game, you ought play only premium hands. There is not enough space in one column to address correct hand-selection strategies. Several poker books have good general guidelines, but keep in mind that guidelines are generalizations and that correct strategy is based on situational analysis.

One common weakness in new players in holdem is overvaluing suited cards, as you have only around a 6 percent chance of making a flush, and that includes the assumption that you are going to stick around to catch runner-runner when one of your suit is on the board (which is generally not the correct play). New players tend to overplay suited connectors and gappers, without thinking through how much trouble 10-high or 8-high flush draws can be in against quality hands.

Another leak in many new players games is that they find themselves playing too many dominated hands, hands in which one or both of their cards prevent them from having the best hand if they make only one pair. For example, you call a double raise with A-10 and find out that one of your opponents has a pair higher than tens wired in the pocket, and another has an ace with a higher kicker, thereby creating a situation in which you must hit at least two good cards for your hand in order to make the best hand. As your knowledge and experience levels grow, you can loosen up over time, but if you are inexperienced, it is generally better to make your errors on the side of being too tight, rather than too loose. It is also important to understand that hands have greater value in late position than they do in early position. This is because you can base your decisions on a greater level of information after your opponents have checked, bet, and so on.

As is the case on the golf course, a big factor in how you'll do over time is choosing the right people to play against. In a foursome with your club pro, you are not likely to do well. You need to choose the poker game you play in with this thought in mind. Generally, in poker, the higher you play, the tougher you will find your opponents to be. This seems to be most meaningful above the $5-$10 limit. Below that level, you are almost always competing against other amateurs, and their edge against you, especially if you are reading this, is not likely to be significant.

Another error that beginners (and many experienced players, for that matter) make is letting their emotions get the best of them. Poker is full of bad beats. It's disappointing to lose a big pot on the river, especially to a slim draw. But that does not justify getting mad and either treating your opponents disrespectfully or throwing good money after bad. If you don't have the emotional strength to maintain control, leave the table. If it is a repetitive issue and you continuously lose control, find a mellower hobby!

It is important when starting out in poker to understand your limitations. Many beginning players think poker is just common sense, and that because they are smart, they will automatically be good. While mental skills are an important component of poker, there is much to be learned. If you really are smart, it will still take you significant time to acquire strategies, feel, and situational-play knowledge. So, if you are just starting out, don't think you are going to take the poker world by storm immediately, and don't play at a level at which financial loses can damage you economically.
It is also important to understand your goals. Somebody who has visions of competing on the tournament circuit someday should approach the game quite differently from somebody who is looking to have some fun in a competitive way, and perhaps make a few bucks at it. What you expect from your time playing poker will determine your playing style, the games you should choose, and much more.

Too many inexperienced players do not protect their hands. If you make a hand and think it might be good, don't be intimidated into calling when players behind you are yet to act. As a general rule, play your hand as the best hand, and charge others to draw. If you let your opponents draw cheaply, they are often making a correct bet in doing so, and you do not want to give them opportunities to draw correctly when they can be avoided. So, when you make a hand that you think might be good but could be outdrawn, play it aggressively when there are players yet to act behind you.

Along the same lines, don't play in a manner in which your opponents can consistently read you. Mix things up. I am not saying that you should go crazy, by any means, but every once in a while, play a hand differently from how you would normally play it. A good time to do this is early in a session, against observant opponents, as it will have more impact than after you have been in the game for a while because it creates deception for a greater duration of time. If your opponents can read your playbook, it will not be effective.

Poker is a complex game, with much to know. Learning to play well is a process, and it can be an expensive one. If you start with the important fundamentals, and reduce the major costly errors, your learning curve will be shortened and the cost will be greatly reduced. So, if you are new to the game, keep your thoughts on some important fundamentals: Play quality starting hands, while keeping your position in mind. If you make a hand, play it aggressively and dont let your opponents draw cheaply. Dont try to step up too quickly or put yourself in games that are over your head, either in quality of opponents or financial stakes. Dont let your opponents get a line on your play; mix it up, but dont overdo it.

And most importantly, make every day a learning experience.

Ours is a wonderful game, and all of the new players have made it even better. But the best thing for you and for poker is for you to survive economically! Put some time in on the driving range and putting green, work on your swing and make your game a more fulfilling and rewarding experience!



Not mine ....but good advice anyway.........


Andy Bee

Comments

  • edited December 2009
    In Response to poker and golf??????:
    The poker scene has grown immensely in the last few years as many new players have entered the poker world. But the poker world is a predatory one, with concepts of evolution and natural selection in full force. The strong survive and the weak go broke and find other pastimes. Nobody takes up golf and plays like Tiger Woods. But for some reason, many new players come to the poker world expecting that they can and will do well with little practice and preparation. The fact is, many, many people enjoy golf, with no expectation of playing on a competitive professional level. They, we, actually, as I am a bit of a duffer myself an play for the fun of it. And that is how it should be. Of course, there's an element of competitive drive. Whatever we undertake, we like to do well. Some people have more competitive spirit than others, but pretty much everyone would rather win than lose. And poker is like golf in that way. And like golf or any other competitive endeavor, practice and preparation make your game better, and increase your chances of besting your opponents. And also like golf, there are some basics that you just have to know, both for the game to be fun and for you to have a chance to win. If you are new to the game, you need to learn how to play. If you don't have some clue, poker will be an expensive hobby and no fun. Like most things in life, there is a hard way and an easy way to learn. You can try to acquire poker skills from experience, the school of hard knocks, learning from your errors and trying to get a conceptual feel for the game by expending effort and time to do so. For some it is an effective school, but reading and discussing poker can dramatically shorten the time and cost to develop skills. Finding and studying quality books or getting a mentor who has the ability, time, and desire to help you with your game is a much faster road to prosperity. That said, there are some basic errors that many people who are new to the game seem to make, errors that are quite easy to avoid. Most of these players play way too many hands. They are just excited to be there and wanna play. But correct poker strategy requires patience to wait for good situations. Experienced players have the knowledge to differentiate between playable and unplayable situations. Inexperienced players do not, and for that reason, if you are new to the game, you ought play only premium hands. There is not enough space in one column to address correct hand-selection strategies. Several poker books have good general guidelines, but keep in mind that guidelines are generalizations and that correct strategy is based on situational analysis. One common weakness in new players in holdem is overvaluing suited cards, as you have only around a 6 percent chance of making a flush, and that includes the assumption that you are going to stick around to catch runner-runner when one of your suit is on the board (which is generally not the correct play). New players tend to overplay suited connectors and gappers, without thinking through how much trouble 10-high or 8-high flush draws can be in against quality hands. Another leak in many new players games is that they find themselves playing too many dominated hands, hands in which one or both of their cards prevent them from having the best hand if they make only one pair. For example, you call a double raise with A-10 and find out that one of your opponents has a pair higher than tens wired in the pocket, and another has an ace with a higher kicker, thereby creating a situation in which you must hit at least two good cards for your hand in order to make the best hand. As your knowledge and experience levels grow, you can loosen up over time, but if you are inexperienced, it is generally better to make your errors on the side of being too tight, rather than too loose. It is also important to understand that hands have greater value in late position than they do in early position. This is because you can base your decisions on a greater level of information after your opponents have checked, bet, and so on. As is the case on the golf course, a big factor in how you'll do over time is choosing the right people to play against. In a foursome with your club pro, you are not likely to do well. You need to choose the poker game you play in with this thought in mind. Generally, in poker, the higher you play, the tougher you will find your opponents to be. This seems to be most meaningful above the $5-$10 limit. Below that level, you are almost always competing against other amateurs, and their edge against you, especially if you are reading this, is not likely to be significant. Another error that beginners (and many experienced players, for that matter) make is letting their emotions get the best of them. Poker is full of bad beats. It's disappointing to lose a big pot on the river, especially to a slim draw. But that does not justify getting mad and either treating your opponents disrespectfully or throwing good money after bad. If you don't have the emotional strength to maintain control, leave the table. If it is a repetitive issue and you continuously lose control, find a mellower hobby! It is important when starting out in poker to understand your limitations. Many beginning players think poker is just common sense, and that because they are smart, they will automatically be good. While mental skills are an important component of poker, there is much to be learned. If you really are smart, it will still take you significant time to acquire strategies, feel, and situational-play knowledge. So, if you are just starting out, don't think you are going to take the poker world by storm immediately, and don't play at a level at which financial loses can damage you economically. It is also important to understand your goals. Somebody who has visions of competing on the tournament circuit someday should approach the game quite differently from somebody who is looking to have some fun in a competitive way, and perhaps make a few bucks at it. What you expect from your time playing poker will determine your playing style, the games you should choose, and much more. Too many inexperienced players do not protect their hands. If you make a hand and think it might be good, don't be intimidated into calling when players behind you are yet to act. As a general rule, play your hand as the best hand, and charge others to draw. If you let your opponents draw cheaply, they are often making a correct bet in doing so, and you do not want to give them opportunities to draw correctly when they can be avoided. So, when you make a hand that you think might be good but could be outdrawn, play it aggressively when there are players yet to act behind you. Along the same lines, don't play in a manner in which your opponents can consistently read you. Mix things up. I am not saying that you should go crazy, by any means, but every once in a while, play a hand differently from how you would normally play it. A good time to do this is early in a session, against observant opponents, as it will have more impact than after you have been in the game for a while because it creates deception for a greater duration of time. If your opponents can read your playbook, it will not be effective. Poker is a complex game, with much to know. Learning to play well is a process, and it can be an expensive one. If you start with the important fundamentals, and reduce the major costly errors, your learning curve will be shortened and the cost will be greatly reduced. So, if you are new to the game, keep your thoughts on some important fundamentals: Play quality starting hands, while keeping your position in mind. If you make a hand, play it aggressively and dont let your opponents draw cheaply. Dont try to step up too quickly or put yourself in games that are over your head, either in quality of opponents or financial stakes. Dont let your opponents get a line on your play; mix it up, but dont overdo it. And most importantly, make every day a learning experience. Ours is a wonderful game, and all of the new players have made it even better. But the best thing for you and for poker is for you to survive economically! Put some time in on the driving range and putting green, work on your swing and make your game a more fulfilling and rewarding experience! Not mine ....but good advice anyway......... Andy Bee
    Posted by ANDYBEE

    Yes?

  • edited December 2009
    maybe? i'm not so sure, what do you think andy?
  • edited December 2009
    In Response to Re: poker and golf??????:
    maybe? i'm not so sure, what do you think andy?
    Posted by chels
    if any poker player thinks he has nothing to learn ...... then he/she is on a slippery slope ..... if we have learnt 95% of the game .... theres always a few % still to learn ...... the game never stopes evolveing live play and learn ..... ask doyal bronson ..... ask how many times hes changed

    andy bee
  • edited December 2009
    whos doyal bronson?
  • edited December 2009
    In Response to Re: poker and golf??????:
    whos doyal bronson?
    Posted by chels
    He's a close friend of Doyle Brunson. He bears a striking resemblance to him, too.
    Back in the sixties, due to their similarity, they were known as "The Brensen Twins".
  • edited December 2009
    Is Tim Bresnan related to them?
  • edited December 2009
    In Response to Re: poker and golf??????:
    Is Tim Bresnan related to them?
    Posted by diablo_pez
    He's not related by blood - he was adopted.
  • edited December 2009
    n Response to Re: poker and golf??????:
    In Response to Re: poker and golf?????? : He's a close friend of Doyle Brunson. He bears a striking resemblance to him, too. Back in the sixties, due to their similarity, they were known as "The Brensen Twins".
    Posted by MereNovice
    sorry i cant spell

    but u must feel so clever ........ i hope your proud

    andy bee
  • edited December 2009
    i was just trying to post something interesting ......but if members are all from ofwat and judge people by there STATS and not interested in poker thats ok i would just say can we have a section for english teachers and one for the rest of us who like poker

    andy bee
  • edited December 2009
    An interesting post but a tad long.

    Why dont you apply to be one of the next bloggers
  • edited December 2009
    i play both, been playing golf for about a year and a long way from good..... been playing poker since around 2000 and still rubbish (i see a theme developing!!)
  • edited December 2009
    In Response to Re: poker and golf??????:
    i was just trying to post something interesting ......but if members are all from ofwat and judge people by there STATS and not interested in poker thats ok i would just say can we have a section for english teachers and one for the rest of us who like poker andy bee
    Posted by ANDYBEE
    You repeated (verbatim) something that you'd already posted on the UK Sharks forum.
    I don't have any problem with that as many people may not have read it.
    I also think that a sense of humour is a useful character trait for a poker player.
    You seem to have overlooked the fact that some English teachers may like poker.

    Far more importantly, on neither forum do you credit the person who actually wrote this article. His name is "Roy Cooke" and you should give him the credit that he deserves for a well thought out and clearly expressed opinion.
  • edited December 2009
    ive played golf i end up digging holes same as in poker but still i enjoy the game and dont care if i havnt earned 2000 or more i havnt the bank roll for that kind of cash, i enjoy the game, i enjoy live games more where i can see who im playing.
  • edited December 2009
    well done roy cooke, didnt read it all tho bit long, bet he could talk my nan to sleep.
  • edited December 2009
    Flippin eck, the last time I read that much was in school, Or was a magazine I found with pretty pictures in.

    But as for the answer ...What was the question again???
  • edited December 2009
    Don't take comments to heart, the piece is good but you need to break it up a little and probably rather than a full copy and paste if your going to use somebodys article then why not break it down and add your thoughts on it?
  • edited December 2009
    P.S  if the question is a choice between poker and golf then i'll choose poker..... My back swing SUCK's lol
  • edited December 2009
    In Response to Re: poker and golf??????:
    P.S  if the question is a choice between poker and golf then i'll choose poker..... My back swing SUCK's lol
    Posted by ACESOVER8s
    back slice .....!!!! with me its my slice ...... the only slice i like now is in a G&T

    andy bee
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