Be honest with us....!

Sky_Poker

I voted yes - but I don't take part

Mainly as the vast majority of my play on the site is MTT's and if I do sit at a cash table, I prefer to play on a full table so the promotion really isn't relevant to me.

Sky_Poker

Quick question for cash players please.

We have what is a really generous promotion in 'Early Bird' where you can get 50% more poker points and so boost your Cash for Points dramatically.

So....

TINTIN

i fully understand how it works and i start new tables when i can.

but as i play at the micro stakes and it doesnt really boost anything at all and the boost is hardly noticable. starting new tables tend to fill up quick down here so you can be lucky to play 4 or 5 hands where the boost would be applicable. plus youve got to full stack someone for 100bb to even see an extra point

im not knocking the promo and understand its to get games going esp the further up the stakes you go. but yeah i fully understand how it works

Sky_Poker

Thanks for the comments.

It's still early but it seems people understand but dont take part so a quick extra question...


... how would you improve it?


Thanks
Sky Poker

The_Don90

I dont take part purley because i struggle with short handed cash. I dont think sky could improve to help me, without sitting me down and teaching me how to beat the best 3 handed is cash - which might cost more than its worth. 

pilgrim07

I dont bother because,as TINTIN says, the increase is hardly significant. Perhaps if you were to boost by 100%....... 

ajs4385

it isnt generous, even with early bird cash player get less rakeback than tourny players.

I would prefer get rid of gimmicks and give us same rakeback as tourny players.

Tables get going naturally when others fill.

unknown_username

In Response to Re: Be honest with us....!:

Thanks for the comments. It's still early but it seems people understand but dont take part so a quick extra question... ... how would you improve it? Thanks Sky Poker
Posted by Sky_Poker

Continue to run the 50% Cash For Points boost for at least an hour after the tables have filled.

or

Rake Free hour for the first 3 Entrants?

The_Don90

In Response to Re: Be honest with us....!:

it isnt generous, even with early bird cash player get less rakeback than tourny players. I would prefer get rid of gimmicks and give us same rakeback as tourny players. Tables get going naturally when others fill.
Posted by ajs4385

Cash players earn less rake than MTT players? 

May i ask how many MTT only players make priority. 

TINTIN

In Response to Re: Be honest with us....!:

In Response to Re: Be honest with us....! : Cash players earn less rake than MTT players?  May i ask how many MTT only players make priority. 
Posted by The_Don90

don, i dont know how much you have read over the last few months but im pretty sure the reference is to how the points are earned since the change to weighted contribution. its not about priority so to speak.

the reference is to the earning of points on cash tables being £1 rake = 6 points and the mtt/stt side of things is £1 rake= 10 points. even with happy hour the most points our £1 makes is 9 points.

its been brought up a few times

Lambert180

Kinda irrelevant isn't it Donald? Also the same applies to SnG players and I'm sure there are tons that make priority regular. Rake is rake.

Back to OP, I understand the promotion and always try to take part. To be fair, It's a nice bonus but I'd be starting tables anyway with or without the bonus for various reasons of my own.

beaneh

In Response to Re: Be honest with us....!:

it isnt generous, even with early bird cash player get less rakeback than tourny players. I would prefer get rid of gimmicks and give us same rakeback as tourny players. Tables get going naturally when others fill.
Posted by ajs4385

 Tables get going naturally when others fill.

Interesting understanding of natural. 

ya'll sit out at empty tables until someone with a penchant for giving money away hand over fist sits, then BAM SIT IN BOYS ITS TIME TO PLAY.  Then bam he sits out we all best sit out boys no point playing this here game when he's not here. We're lucky to have people so unwilling to start games as you are....

No ones going to give an honest answer, because obviously no one starts games because no one wants to play poker, they just want to be given money. it's the same reason why you have 20-50 empty heads up tables being waited at by the same 10 people.

Lambert180

Yo Beaneh,

At my levels, it's obviously not an issue, don't get too many BHs @ 20NL and lower but from your experience has this made the slightest different at the higher levels?

Obviously it's N/A to HU action so that gonna change, but is there even the tiniest of differences in 6max games? I suspect there isn't tbh and that Sky are just unnecessarily giving extra money away for zero impact but just wondered what you thought.

FWIW, I am (obviously) in favour of ditching happy hours and early bird and just giving us 10 points per £1 rake.

Slykllist

In Response to Re: Be honest with us....!:

it isnt generous, even with early bird cash player get less rakeback than tourny players. I would prefer get rid of gimmicks and give us same rakeback as tourny players. Tables get going naturally when others fill.
Posted by ajs4385

This is so far from ther truth it's laughable!

beaneh

In Response to Re: Be honest with us....!:

Yo Beaneh, At my levels, it's obviously not an issue, don't get too many BHs @ 20NL and lower but from your experience has this made the slightest different at the higher levels? Obviously it's N/A to HU action so that gonna change, but is there even the tiniest of differences in 6max games? I suspect there isn't tbh and that Sky are just unnecessarily giving extra money away for zero impact but just wondered what you thought. FWIW, I am (obviously) in favour of ditching happy hours and early bird and just giving us 10 points per £1 rake.
Posted by Lambert180

the real answer is it's very hard to get bumhunters like the selfish one I quoted above to sit in and play, watch nl100 and above, you'll see 2/6 at lots of 6max, it'll be ajs and remymartin sitting out hu waiting for a bus load of goons (or just one) to sit so they can tick sit in and wait for bb then instantly sit out if that person is stacked or just even ticks sit out, they don't even have the etiquette to wait and see if they are leaving or taking a break. Even though all these people are playing for is the rakeback they aren't willing to try and get games going and get the point boost because they might have to play 1 or even 3 whole hands of poker vs non droolers.

The poker (and world) ecosystem has contracted alot, obviously impacting on the liqidity in all games, however add in the voilently unhelpful and unhealthy attitude of many regs (especially those on sky) and the problems become magnified and very hard to fix.

BUFC

I understand it but just simply dont play cash poker. I have been tempted to try and build a roll at NL4 but am happy playing SNGs and MTT's.

The_Don90

In Response to Re: Be honest with us....!:

In Response to Re: Be honest with us....! : don, i dont know how much you have read over the last few months but im pretty sure the reference is to how the points are earned since the change to weighted contribution. its not about priority so to speak. the reference is to the earning of points on cash tables being £1 rake = 6 points and the mtt/stt side of things is £1 rake= 10 points. even with happy hour the most points our £1 makes is 9 points. its been brought up a few times
Posted by TINTIN

Yeah i can see your point, but lets be truthful, you saying £1 makes 9 points on cash. but that single cash player can make what £1 every other hand in rake at some levels. However My £1 as an mtt player i play maybe 1000 hands (random number but alot of hands to win an mtt) Does that mean i have any less right to be in the priority club just because i pay slightly less rake? It doesn't mean i dont want to pay extra rake - although admitedly id rather not, but i think we have to have more points on RB for mtt players to balance the books. 

I mean say on average buy in on sky is £5.50 (so 5 points per mtt) mtt entry. That means to make priority i have to play on average 20,000 tournaments in a month. Ive not even played that many in 5 years on the site. 

Lambert180

It's makes no difference though. Rake back is what it says on the tin, you pay X amount of rake and get a % of it back, people who pay more rake should get more back.

You could equally say lets give more PP to people who play HU Hypers over people who player regular HU SnGs cos they probably generate rake about 8 times as fast.

Or people who play deepstacks should get less than people who play frenzies.

All that matters is how much you pay in rake really.

EDIT: ^^^ Which is why weighted contribution in cash is so much fairer than just X points per X no. of hands. If you're more active and pay more rake, you should get more rakeback.

beaneh

In Response to Re: Be honest with us....!:

In Response to Re: Be honest with us....! : Yeah i can see your point, but lets be truthful, you saying £1 makes 9 points on cash. but that single cash player can make what £1 every other hand in rake at some levels. However My £1 as an mtt player i play maybe 1000 hands (random number but alot of hands to win an mtt) Does that mean i have any less right to be in the priority club just because i pay slightly less rake? It doesn't mean i dont want to pay extra rake - although admitedly id rather not, but i think we have to have more points on RB for mtt players to balance the books.  I mean say on average buy in on sky is £5.50 (so 5 points per mtt) mtt entry. That means to make priority i have to play on average 20,000 tournaments in a month. Ive not even played that many in 5 years on the site. 
Posted by The_Don90

you talk about making rakeback, TO MAKE IT you have to spend rake.

i'm just going to reiterate, cash players pay rake on every hand, tournament players pay it once then play for potentially hours on that one payments.

why should 'the books be balance' (other than you play mtts yourself) given that the money paid out is all paid from the rake paid, of which you pay alot less relatively?

unknown_username

good anology don well said,i personally i think it should be equal and if you want more cfp play more cash plus if its the same you,ll get more cash players which will mean more rake

The_Don90

In Response to Re: Be honest with us....!:

It's makes no difference though. Rake back is what it says on the tin, you pay X amount of rake and get a % of it back, people who pay more rake should get more back. You could equally say lets give more PP to people who play HU Hypers over people who player regular HU SnGs cos they probably generate rake about 8 times as fast. Or people who play deepstacks should get less than people who play frenzies. All that matters is how much you pay in rake really. EDIT: ^^^ Which is why weighted contribution in cash is so much fairer than just X points per X no. of hands. If you're more active and pay more rake, you should get more rakeback.
Posted by Lambert180

Yeah in a way i agree. But at same time if i ply 10,000 mtts (long shot) then ive probably played just as many if not more hands than someone who gains 10x as much as my in rake back. I know thats a downside to mtt grinding. But i think its slightly unfair to complain about us geting slightly more aswell. 

I mean even look at the Rakeback booster promotions, both are in favour of cash players. 

Is there a boost of say a "double C4P mtt" or even a happy hour on HU hypers? No. So i dont think cash players - who earn more points than everyone else anyway - have any rights to moan. Just my opinions

rancid

Don't really think about it, I just start tables to get some action going

I wouldn't just sit at 3 handed table because of c4p


Even the most inexperienced poker players who donate at tables will start to cotton on that certain people are targeting them and then stop playing. Don't understand why certain regs at higher limits make it so obvious.

At least play some pokerz at the tables versus other regs and don't sit out/in like a vulture.

It happens at other levels aswell, it's quite amusing when the ATM stands a few regs stand lolz

Do love it though when the ATM gets lucky

beaneh

In Response to Re: Be honest with us....!:

In Response to Re: Be honest with us....! : Yeah in a way i agree. But at same time if i ply 10,000 mtts (long shot) then ive probably played just as many if not more hands than someone who gains 10x as much as my in rake back. I know thats a downside to mtt grinding. But i think its slightly unfair to complain about us geting slightly more aswell.  I mean even look at the Rakeback booster promotions, both are in favour of cash players.  Is there a boost of say a "double C4P mtt" or even a happy hour on HU hypers? No. So i dont think cash players - who earn more points than everyone else anyway - have any rights to moan. Just my opinions
Posted by The_Don90

just like how to beat nl4 you're missing the main important points.

if you pay £10 rake, and a cash player pays £50 rake. there is 60 quid in the rake pot. Why on earth (again other than the fact it benefits you as an mtt player) should you get anywhere near an equal proportion of rakeback??

The_Don90

In Response to Re: Be honest with us....!:

In Response to Re: Be honest with us....! : you talk about making rakeback, TO MAKE IT you have to spend rake. i'm just going to reiterate, cash players pay rake on every hand, tournament players pay it once then play for potentially hours on that one payments. why should 'the books be balance' (other than you play mtts yourself) given that the money paid out is all paid from the rake paid, of which you pay alot less relatively?
Posted by beaneh

If im honest i dont give a monkey about Cash for Points. I see it as a nice little top up but ive given up trying to make an amount worthwhile like you guys do.

If im honest i feel that MTT players cant make priority. I probably brought it up in the wrong section. 

The_Don90

In Response to Re: Be honest with us....!:

In Response to Re: Be honest with us....! : just like how to beat nl4 you're missing the main important points. if you pay £10 rake, and a cash player pays £50 rake. there is 60 quid in the rake pot. Why on earth (again other than the fact it benefits you as an mtt player) should you get anywhere near an equal proportion of rakeback??
Posted by beaneh

I have replied to your previous responce. 

And a prime example on why i no longer play cash unless its for fun. 

Lambert180

As has been said though, the cash promotions give you 50% bonus so it takes the C4P from 6 points per £1 to 9 points per £1, So for a very small portion of the day we get 10% less, the rest of the day we get 40% less.

Rakeback isn't paid on number of hands, it's on rake paid. It's swings and roundabouts with all formats. It's like a cash player saying it's not fair, I can't sit down pay £5 and leave with £500 a couple of hours later.

Tbf, rakeback is a bonus and as Doh has been telling me for years.... profit /> C4P

Lambert180

P.S. Just saw your last post and yeah I think it's nigh on impossible to get Priority purely from MTTs on Sky, but that's

1) The nature of the beast with MTTs.
2) down to the number and size of tournies Sky can facilitate

beaneh

In Response to Re: Be honest with us....!:

In Response to Re: Be honest with us....! :  If im honest i feel that MTT players cant make priority.
Posted by The_Don90

ya obviously this is the case, because of the rake structures, and the avg length of mtts vs 1 hand of cash.

no one is forced to play any format that they don't want to.

the problem for the site is that the bulk of the players who play 'regularly' sit folding to rack up the points and then get the  rakeback,  not for the love of the game or to enjoy it or w/e hence it can be so impossibly hard to start games.

The_Don90

Ill respond to both in this post cba to quote now. 

Does that mean that as an mtt player i shouldnt have priority? Or i shouldnt have right to earn priority. 

Its not down to the number and size of tournaments Lambert, Sky runs more tournaments than far bigger sites.

I doupt i could earn priority anyways i dont play enough, but players who play more than me probably could given a route into it from MTTs. 

I dont know all the priority perks as honestly its not worth me looking, as beaneh says i cant beat nl4 so playing cash for the C4P would be a losing play long term for me. However i would still like the option to be able to earn priority. 

I dont know how cash works at the level your at if im honest beaneh, although i know what you mean about the endless players who basically fold everything bar aces pre and sets post flop and earn just as many C4P as someone who is happy to play for the love of the game. 

Sky_Poker

In Response to Re: Be honest with us....!:

In Response to Re: Be honest with us....! : ya obviously this is the case, because of the rake structures, and the avg length of mtts vs 1 hand of cash. no one is forced to play any format that they don't want to. the problem for the site is that the bulk of the players who play 'regularly' sit folding to rack up the points and then get the  rakeback,  not for the love of the game or to enjoy it or w/e hence it can be so impossibly hard to start games.
Posted by beaneh

This is the thing we are interested in. People do generally prefer to wait for a seat on a full table rather than starting one. Often there are queues on many tables (and not just because they are waiting for a 'fish') at a level and people would rather wait it seems.

Early bird is designed to help this and to help encourage more games to start, so that when other people come to the site, they see games starting, with seats spare... ...and so on.

Lambert180

If you play soley MTTs and can't earn 10,000 points, then you shuoldn't have the right no. It's like saying shouldn't a 4NL player have the right to earn it, they all have the ability but less rake per game/hand = you need to play more hands/games.