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Should I have folded?

edited April 2013 in The Poker Clinic
PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
Small blind  30.00 30.00 2680.00
Big blind  60.00 90.00 3270.00
 Your hole cards
  • A
  • Q
   
villain Call  60.00 150.00 3100.00
Fold     
OrangeApex Raise  120.00 270.00 2315.00
Call  120.00 390.00 2215.00
Fold     
Call  60.00 450.00 3210.00
villain Call  60.00 510.00 3040.00
Flop
  
  • 4
  • 4
  • Q
   
Check     
villain Bet  255.00 765.00 2785.00
OrangeApex Raise  510.00 1275.00 1805.00
Fold     
Fold     
villain Call  255.00 1530.00 2530.00
Turn
  
  • 6
   
villainAll-in  2530.00 4060.00 0.00
OrangeApex All-in  1805.00 5865.00 0.00
villain Unmatched bet  725.00 5140.00 725.00
villain Show
  • 3
  • 5
   
OrangeApex Show
  • A
  • Q
   
River
  
  • 2
   
villain Win Straight to the 6 5140.00  5865.00
Villain limps in, so I re-raise with good hand.  Bets fairly large on flop so I'm assuming either bluff or Queen (since I was playing tight in early stages).  Re-raise IMO should have seen villain off?
With the all-in should I have seen it as a 4 and folded (being behind to trips) or was I right to call?

Comments

  • edited April 2013
    If he's calling with 35s pre and raising his FD otf then you are miles ahead of his range on the flop and turn because he could be doing this with any 2 FD cards or any Q. Both these hands you're ahead of, so no there is no way you could or should fold here.
  • edited April 2013
    "Villain limps in, so I re-raise with good hand."

    You must raise bigger when there's a limper before you. The min-raise here doesn't get maximum value from your opponent because he would likely call for more. It also makes it less likely that you will go heads-up to a flop because the blinds will feel "priced in". They won't actually be priced in if their hands are no good but that's how they may feel. So raise bigger to isolate that limper. The standard is to add a big blind for every limper onto your usual raise size. Normally in deepstacked games, we'd say 3x+1, so three times the big blind and add one big blind for every limper.

    "Bets fairly large on flop..."

    Your opponent's donk-bet on the flop is just for half-pot. You shouldn't really consider this to be a big bet. It's actually the smallest standard-sized bet of most players.

    "...so I'm assuming either bluff or Queen (since I was playing tight in early stages)."


    Why do you assume it's a Queen or bluff? Would you view a flush-draw as a bluff? How do you rule out a 4 or a pocket pair? Did you have specific reads on this opponent or are these just assumptions based on what you generally see? I'm not saying that you're wrong, I just want to hear your thoughts.

    "Re-raise IMO should have seen villain off?"

    This is fairly unlikely. Your min-raise has given your opponent pot odds of 5:1. If he believes his flush draw is live he only needs pot odds of 4:1 to make this call break even, so with 5:1 it's a profitable one. From his point of view, you must have a set of Queens or a better flush draw for this call to be wrong and your range is wider than that: You'll have AA, KK, AQ, KQ, QJ considerably more often.

    Even if you'd given him a bad price at this point, it's unlikely that he would fold. This is because, generally speaking, a player who limp-calls pre-flop isn't likely to give up once he hits a flush draw. So we can raise much bigger on this flop to charge him for his draw and he'll make the mistake of paying us. As it is, we've offered him a reasonable price to call. When we do this we effectively pay our opponent to draw, rather than charge them. We need to make his price worse than 4:1 to make our raise profitable.

    "With the all-in should I have seen it as a 4 and folded (being behind to trips) or was I right to call?"

    I agree with F_Ivanovic. You shouldn't be folding the turn. The only reasonable hand he can have that beats you is a 4 and there shouldn't be many of those in his range. Generally we'll see more draws and weaker Queens than hands that beat us. We only need to beat 35% of his range to make the call break-even anyway and I think we can expect to in fact be beating a majority of his range.


    So raise bigger pre-flop and raise bigger on the flop. Don't fold on this turn card. You're unlucky to be outdrawn on the river but that's just part of the game. Don't focus on the result of the hand, focus on your play pre-flop and on the flop.
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