AK 90BB deep facing cold 4bet shove readless.

The_Don90

Umm title somes it up really. The only other thing maybe to take into consideration is ive 3b a few times recently v the opener. Although since im readless im not sure if that makes a differance.

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
kcuddedoo	Small blind		£0.10	£0.10	£27.56
Kevwinsome	Big blind		£0.20	£0.30	£19.80
	Your hole cards	K A
chukkers17	Call		£0.20	£0.50	£15.56
a	Raise		£0.80	£1.30	£36.52
The_Don90	Raise		£2.60	£3.90	£18.67
x	All-in		£18.15	£22.05	£0.00
kcuddedoo	Fold
Kevwinsome	Fold
chukkers17	Fold
a	Fold
The_Don90

percival09

if his range is QQ+ AK+ or wider we have to call I think. If he's not cold 4bet shoving AK/JJ we should fold

The_Don90

I assume we need reads to assign a range percival? 

percival09

yeah I just call. we're getting a pretty decent price with a monster. quite a bit of dead money in the pot. call call call and flop trips

1281

In Response to Re: AK 90BB deep facing cold 4bet shove readless.:

I assume we need reads to assign a range percival? 
Posted by The_Don90

what was the table history like?

The_Don90

In Response to Re: AK 90BB deep facing cold 4bet shove readless.:

In Response to Re: AK 90BB deep facing cold 4bet shove readless. : what was the table history like?
Posted by 1281

I was struggling with lag so its hard to comment as i was missing lots of information. However the table fromwhat i have hasnt been too crazy. Although the 4better hadn't been here long. 

MATT8

This is a spot that probably has pretty much neutral EV; most of the time he's gonna have an underpair 99 - QQ or the same hand as you.

That makes it a horrible spot and in isolation it seems the wisest option just to fold and move on, but you should call because you've already put money in the pot so in the long run repeat folding in this spot where you're usually flipping and probably not dominated any more than you're dominating = a loss.

percival09

if he ever has 99-JJ here then it's a snap snap snap

MATT8

In Response to Re: AK 90BB deep facing cold 4bet shove readless.:

if he ever has 99-JJ here then it's a snap snap snap
Posted by percival09

Anyone who 4 bet shoves there just strikes me as someone whose happy to be gambling with an underpair or A/K.

If I had KK or AA there I would definitely not 4 bet shove in his spot - I'd be making a standard 4 bet to induce a shove from A/K or a call from a pair that then won't fold the flop if it comes out 3 undercards.

The_Don90

In Response to Re: AK 90BB deep facing cold 4bet shove readless.:

In Response to Re: AK 90BB deep facing cold 4bet shove readless. : Anyone who 4 bet shoves there just strikes me as someone whose happy to be gambling with an underpair or A/K. If I had KK or AA there I would definitely not 4 bet shove in his spot - I'd be making a standard 4 bet to induce a shove from A/K or a call from a pair that then won't fold the flop if it comes out 3 undercards.
Posted by MATT8

I really see no need with stacks the open size and my 3b size. A standard raise now is the shove surely. 

Lambert180

It's definitely NOT standard that he can only shove imo

You've only went to 13xBB, he can still easily make a 'normal' raise from 100xBB here.

liamboi11

me personally think its pretty easy call readless and take note what they show up with and note they 4bet allin with x hand

I also think most time here villian has ak/aq/aj and pocket pairs 22-qq not sayin it never happens but lot of unknown don`t just ship aa/kk in these spots in my experience at these levels.

and don`t agree that they can only shove think most regs would 4bet 25-30bbs with top of their range and some regs are capable 4bet folding as bluff also againist the right opponents.

rancid

You have AKs )

so.. slightly +EV versus this range QQ+,AKs,AKo.........feel free to let me know if my calc is out
Based on we win £22.05, have to put in another £15.50.

42% win                              58% lose
.42 x +£22.05         +           .58 x -£15.50
  9.26                     +             -8.99

EV + 0.27p

versus this 99+,AQs+,AQo+

it's +£2.68

The_Don90

So its close then at +27p. 

Lambert180

Well it's close if they only do this with QQ+ and AK, but I bet he will have more in his range than this.

rancid

ya it's close but it's only relative to the amount you have to call against the amount you can win

it's a cold 4 bet, you could even narrow the range aswell as widen it

assign range, how much to call, how much to win


work it out

The same situation will occur again and again but the amount's will not be same and it's this that affect's your EV
Before you 3 bet you should know what you going to do if your 4 bet or shoved on based on amounts and range

The_Don90

In Response to Re: AK 90BB deep facing cold 4bet shove readless.:

ya it's close but it's only relative to the amount you have to call against the amount you can win it's a cold 4 bet, you could even narrow the range aswell as widen it assign range, how much to call, how much to win work it out The same situation will occur again but the amount's will not be same and it's this that affect's your EV
Posted by rancid

Yeah you have a point. Shows the whole problem with being readless tbh 

zing

call