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Stat Trackers and Staking

edited April 2013 in Poker Chat
Just a few questions about life outside micro stakes Sky Poker, which is currently all I can really play. I'm interested to know if any of you guys use stat trackers on other sites etc and find them worth their weight in chips or whether you find if you pay enough attention you can pull the same reads on Sky with no stats?

Also I was wondering how staking works, the logistics of how you ensure the winnings are split etc and if anyone on here is staked. Obviously those players might not want to say so sorry for probing but it's all quite interesting to me. This links in with the stats because it's tough to get your stats from sky right? Other than sharkscope?

Comments

  • edited April 2013
    In terms of "Stat tracking" Other than Sharkscope which you obviously already know about, I'm not sure any other site works with Skypoker. I may be wrong, others will know more. Sharkscope is good as you can get around 200 searches (Not counting the 5 free you get every day). I don't tend to use it on other players though, I mainly use it to track my own progress, which games I am most/least profitable in so I can get maximum EV.

    Staking is where someone pays a % of a tournament buyin for a % return. Generally its done like for like. I.E if they pay 10% of your buy in and you cash, then they get 10% of that. There are people however who have good reputations in tournaments who can sell it at better value. They may sell 10% for a 7% return for example. This can be great if you have the backers, because you can sell a high % of yourself and fully cover your buy in and still have some left if you cash.

  • edited April 2013
    Does anyone at sky poker get involved in staking? And yeh the only problem with sharkscope is it only includes tournaments right?
  • edited April 2013
    If I am deep in a tournament on another site I tend to search their stats on officialpokerrankings.com. This way I get an idea of how much the money means to them/an idea of their ability. I pay more attention to their play but I normally finds it helps. I dont use any of the hand tracking software out there. (I probably should but have managed to get results without it).

    I have never been staked for anything but have bought % of people a few times. Regarding staking you can either have a long term deal or sell for an individual event/series of events. An individual event/series of events is a lot easier as results tend to be published somewhere and results can be easily worked out. A longer term deal is a lot more difficult and a higher level of trust is involved. Most of the time playing audits are done where the player sends this to backer.

    I know some players have sold for UKOPS etc but am not aware if anyone is staked full time on sky. IMO Staking is more suited to the larger sites where fields are bigger and therefore so is the variance.

    What I would add is if you are going to get involved in staking make sure you do your research into the player and use a sort of bankroll management with staking as it can be expensive.

    Hope this answers your questions
  • edited April 2013
    In Response to Re: Stat Trackers and Staking:
    Does anyone at sky poker get involved in staking? And yeh the only problem with sharkscope is it only includes tournaments right?
    Posted by 10NGY
    Sky poker as a site does not promote any staking. However Team Diamond I believe still does staking and one of our TPT members is now staked but he mainly plays on another site now.

      Yes your right about Sharkscope tourneys and sit n gos only. And if you happen to sat into a tourney it always assumes you paid the full buy in. So its far from accurate.
  • edited April 2013
    Thanks a lot for the answers guys. And I wouldn't be staking others Matt! Thinking about the other way around. Also would resetting your stats on sharkscope lose alot of credibility. It's been tracking me at sky for a while now and I've only recently improved my game? 
  • edited April 2013
    In Response to Re: Stat Trackers and Staking:
    In Response to Re: Stat Trackers and Staking : Sky poker as a site does not promote any staking. However Team Diamond I believe still does staking and one of our TPT members is now staked but he mainly plays on another site now.   Yes your right about Sharkscope tourneys and sit n gos only. And if you happen to sat into a tourney it always assumes you paid the full buy in. So its far from accurate.
    Posted by FlyingDagg
    This isn't strictly true.

    If you play a £2 satellite and get into a £20 tournament, then that will show as being +£18 because you essentially did make £18 profit.

    Then if you bust that £20 tournament, that will show as -£20

    So overall, you'd have a +£18 and a -£20 which make a -£2 which is true because that is what you lost because you only lost your satellite money :)
  • edited April 2013
    In Response to Re: Stat Trackers and Staking:
    Thanks a lot for the answers guys. And I wouldn't be staking others Matt! Thinking about the other way around. Also would resetting your stats on sharkscope lose alot of credibility. It's been tracking me at sky for a while now and I've only recently improved my game? 
    Posted by 10NGY
    I was in the same boat not long ago. My SS was pretty rubbish from years of playing on here and not being particularly good.

    Personally though I did feel it was a bit like cheating to reset my stats even though they weren't a true reflection of my current abililty. Imo, just get in the volume, work at it, and it'll feel all the better when you've turned your SS round and can see the progress you've made.
  • edited April 2013
    If you reset your stats and then ask someone to back you online, you are very unlikely to get backed. Forget what's happened in the past, if your game is improving, then your graph will start moving in the right direction and that is what people will like to see. You will have to play quite a bit though to get a fiar reflection of your ability.

    IMO, forget about backing as a way of getting into tournaments. You need to improve your bankroll with wins so you can afford the buy ins and then use backers as a way of leveling out the variance and reducing the cost.

    Like others have said though. Sky isn't really a place to get stakers, it's just not a big enough site, and there is little for the people who put up the money to get excited about.
  • edited April 2013
    Really helpful as always guys. I will start playing in more volume when Uni is finished and see how I get on :)
  • edited April 2013
    Yes i have fulltime backing which includes coaching and makeup.  So for example if i ran deep in a tournament i would get the hand history sent to me from the site i played it on and review the hand history with them after the tournament. Deal works 50% profit chop every $1000 made and makeup so for example if i was on a $2000 downswing i would then need to make $3000 to get a chop.  Been a great way for me to be able to play mtts full time to level out the varience and the coaching has really improved my game.
  • edited April 2013
    Only stat tracking I use is Sharkscope and I really only use that to check on lunatic players and see if they actually know what they're doing.

    Regarding staking I've been involved in various little bits, from both buying and selling action, never for more than a few hundred quid.  best advice is only get involved with peopel you know you can trust as ultimately it has to work on a trust basis, I know a guy I backed min cashed in an onine tourney I'd backed him in on another site (my share would have been less than my original stake, which was only very small) and never offered to pay me, I never asked for the money but at the same time I'll never back him again.
  • edited April 2013
    In Response to Re: Stat Trackers and Staking:
    Yes i have fulltime backing which includes coaching and makeup.  So for example if i ran deep in a tournament i would get the hand history sent to me from the site i played it on and review the hand history with them after the tournament. Deal works 50% profit chop every $1000 made and makeup so for example if i was on a $2000 downswing i would then need to make $3000 to get a chop.  Been a great way for me to be able to play mtts full time to level out the varience and the coaching has really improved my game.
    Posted by bearlyther
    Hi Connor, how does this work if the downswing continues?  Does there come a point where they just cut you loose?  If you decide to quit do you still owe them the defecit?
  • edited April 2013
    In Response to Re: Stat Trackers and Staking:
    In Response to Re: Stat Trackers and Staking : Hi Connor, how does this work if the downswing continues?  Does there come a point where they just cut you loose?  If you decide to quit do you still owe them the defecit?
    Posted by Slykllist
    No mate if someone was on a big downswing they know all about the varience involved in mtts backing continues.  Would never quit if i were ever to go on a big downswing there very good to me i have loads to learn of them and im in it for the long haul i suppose someone could quit if they wanted but its not fair to them ethically speaking.
  • edited April 2013
    In Response to Re: Stat Trackers and Staking:
    In Response to Re: Stat Trackers and Staking : No mate if someone was on a big downswing they know all about the varience involved in mtts backing continues.  Would never quit if i were ever to go on a big downswing there very good to me i have loads to learn of them and im in it for the long haul i suppose someone could quit if they wanted but its not fair to them ethically speaking.
    Posted by bearlyther
    The key behind this is whether they think its a downswing or not? If they review hands and you are just getting on the wrong side of some brutal variance then they stick with you as they believe you are a good player. If you are making mistakes and not learning (this bit is the key bit) then they might get to stage where they call it a day and they drop you and make up is wiped.
  • edited April 2013
    In Response to Re: Stat Trackers and Staking:
    In Response to Re: Stat Trackers and Staking : The key behind this is whether they think its a downswing or not? If they review hands and you are just getting on the wrong side of some brutal variance then they stick with you as they believe you are a good player. If you are making mistakes and not learning (this bit is the key bit) then they might get to stage where they call it a day and they drop you and make up is wiped.
    Posted by MattBates
    Well ive had 10 profit chops since january across a few sites so im doing ok brag lol!
  • edited April 2013
    In Response to Re: Stat Trackers and Staking:
    In Response to Re: Stat Trackers and Staking : Well ive had 10 profit chops since january across a few sites so im doing ok brag lol!
    Posted by bearlyther
    My post wasn't aimed at you, was a general comment...congrats on the results
  • edited April 2013
    In Response to Re: Stat Trackers and Staking:
    In Response to Re: Stat Trackers and Staking : My post wasn't aimed at you, was a general comment...congrats on the results
    Posted by MattBates
    yea i know mate thanks
  • edited April 2013
    i won 4 p couple of days ago i raised a guy on heads up 2p/4p and he folded i hit n run for 4p all adds up to my sharkscope :)
  • edited April 2013
    sharkscope also misses results from time-to-time. there was a period when the 9pm roller results weren't being picked up. so my scope is several 1000s under reality - still not pretty though - that's the problem when you play for fun instead of playing to win!

  • edited April 2013
    In Response to Re: Stat Trackers and Staking:
    i won 4 p couple of days ago i raised a guy on heads up 2p/4p and he folded i hit n run for 4p all adds up to my sharkscope :)
    Posted by IDONKCALLU
    This is why we love you (figuratively speaking not in a manlove way)
  • edited April 2013
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