Can I fold AK here?

Dudeskin8

Dudeskin8	Small blind		15.00	15.00	1925.00
EDKENT123	Big blind		30.00	45.00	1612.50
	Your hole cards	K A
thecovkid	Fold
mava	Fold
Wineman	Call		30.00	75.00	2115.00
CrystalLee	Call		30.00	105.00	1855.00
Dudeskin8	Raise		75.00	180.00	1850.00
EDKENT123	Call		60.00	240.00	1552.50
Wineman	Call		60.00	300.00	2055.00
CrystalLee	Call		60.00	360.00	1795.00
Flop
		3 5 A
Dudeskin8	Bet		270.00	630.00	1580.00
EDKENT123	Fold
Wineman	Raise		540.00	1170.00	1515.00
CrystalLee	Fold
Dudeskin8	All-in		1580.00	2750.00	0.00
Wineman	Call		1310.00	4060.00	205.00
Dudeskin8	Show	K A
Wineman	Show	A 3
Turn
		4
River
		8
Wineman	Win	Two Pairs, Aces and 3s	4060.00		4265.00

Bad beat as per usual, but did I have the option of folding?

CLIOKID

Bigger raise PF required.

The min raise looks a bit suspicious of 33 of 55. Blinds are big enough to get away.

phil12uk

Gotta agree with Clio that a bigger preflop raise is needed to stop these kinda hands being allowed in against us. Once that flop comes u have to ask urself questions about ur opponent.  In ur shoes Im probably calling here but as i said, the preflop play needed to be better.

scrumdown

yep should have big raise u let him in cheap ace rag and hit 2 pair

FISH50

Does this not take out the whole aspect of slow playing although its not a play i like to use myself would you say slow playing over a long period of time would be more financially valuable over the larger raise???

Dudeskin8

You say the raise needed should be bigger, but I tend to only raise 4x with 10 10 upwards (big pairs), if i do the same raise with AK and miss I would have got same call with 3x, but do 4x with pairs as I have a hand to play with and don't have to hit. Also I know you don't need to hit to win but against hardcore the fish the bluff has little if no effect.

Hogg321

You let too many people into the hand, you want to be 1v1/2 when the flop comes down

apart from that, you probably cant fold AK really

Aski

The 3 and 4 x BB raises are normally when you are the first in the pot, the idea being that you will get rid of all the chaff out there.Once the pot had increased from teh initial blinds, then your bet should be in context of what is already in the middle. Your raise of 75 gave the BB and the limpers odds of 3 -1 to call, and once Ed on the BB came in, then the previous two limpers received better odds. I'd have come in there with any type of connecting cards just to see a flop given those odds.

Slow playing pre flop is an option against one maybe 2 opponents, but as someone pointed out on another thread pocket aces against 4 opponents is only just over a 50% fav to win the hand, so slow playing against 3 opponents without a made hand, is a dangerous game to play.

There are many hands that would be prepared to limp in the situation you have provided,, any pocket pair from 7's below, even against one opponent playing 3 4 os you are only a 63% fav. If you then add two random holdings of 7 8 os and Q 2 suited, all hands that may feel they are given the odds to call after your pre flop raise, then you chances of winning reduce  35%.

With there already having been 2 limpers, Id have been looking at making a raise of 150, and thats with a premium made hand, I may have made it slightly more with a weaker holding, or just limped to see what the flop brought.

The min raise on the flop suggests to me it isnt someone who is afraid of the ace, I would expect a holding of AQ, AJ, to make a bigger raise to protect against the draws, so  it suggest someone has hit 2 pair or a set, altho I admit in teh heat of the moment, I'm probably going to press the call button here, in that exact same situation.

Aski

BlackFish3

Limp in, bet half pot on flop if you hit, fold to any reraise.

FISH50

Initial suspect raise then a re raise of an all in on a 2 pair or straight call sometimes you dont deserve the pot with that sort of play you gotta go for the throat from the outset if your willing to go all in when your flopped a high pair its not as if your sitting with 7-8 you had ak low initial raise killed you but still no need for the allin.

you got punked, good learning curve

Buistyboy

i think a bigger raise preflop is definitely required.  Like suggested above, a raise to 150 will often get rid of the ace-rag player who figures he is out kickered, or maybe playing against a pair, and therefore not getting the odds to play

scotty77

raise to 180 pf

Dudeskin8

In Response to Re: Can I fold AK here?:

raise to 180 pf
Posted by scotty77

LMAO, novel idea, but has little effect at the level i play.

scotty77

In Response to Re: Can I fold AK here?:

In Response to Re: Can I fold AK here? : LMAO, novel idea, but has little effect at the level i play.
Posted by Dudeskin8

then why raise to 75pf.

if you are gonna raise do it properly.

Dudeskin8

In Response to Re: Can I fold AK here?:

In Response to Re: Can I fold AK here? : then why raise to 75pf. if you are gonna raise do it properly.
Posted by scotty77

Refer to previous post.

Rattious

In Response to Re: Can I fold AK here?:

In Response to Re: Can I fold AK here? : Refer to previous post.
Posted by Dudeskin8

At least if you put in a meaningful raise preflop you will be justified in asking questions about a call from Ace 3.

Once one player calls your raise to 75 the whole table has odds to come along.

Rattious

In Response to Re: Can I fold AK here?:

Limp in, bet half pot on flop if you hit, fold to any reraise.
Posted by BlackFish3

Limp in when you feel you are ahead, put chips in the middle when you dont know and then back off if you are raised?

What if he is called by 2 pair or more looking for value on the turn and river?

This is awful advice!