The HU BH Shuffle is a cheat's dream

kirstii

I just played in one of these tournaments where 3 get paid, I had 30000 my opponent had 25000, the other table had 6000 between them and were continually folding back and forth until 1 of us lost our stack. If this isn't colluding I don't know what is.

Went onto live chat to see if anything could be done, nope. Won't be reimbursed for it and both players will keep there winnings. Well done Sky.

The_Don90

sounds like two players had a moment of genius. if nothing is mentioned in chat then nothing can be proven. 

infact doesnt even sound like colluding to me. 

calcalfold

Lets get this right, your saying two people know eachother, just happen to both make the last 4 and end up at the same table.

bit of a long shot dont you think.

imo they both just had the right idea, get into a folding routine and wait for one of you to get stacked.

Not cheating imo, just common sense.

kirstii

Doesn't sound like colluding? Dear oh dear.

I'm expecting everyone to play fair and play poker, that is not poker. I don't see how anyone can see any different.

calcalfold

In Response to Re: The HU BH Shuffle is a cheat's dream:

Doesn't sound like colluding? Dear oh dear. I'm expecting everyone to play fair and play poker, that is not poker. I don't see how anyone can see any different.
Posted by kirstii

Were they taking on their tables chat?

NColley

Prob should be blaming the poor payout structure rather then the players...

HU tourneys shouldn't pay odd numbers unless its winner takes all.

kirstii

In Response to Re: The HU BH Shuffle is a cheat's dream:

In Response to Re: The HU BH Shuffle is a cheat's dream : Were they taking on their tables chat?
Posted by calcalfold

Wasn't watching them the whole time. Even still this is clearly a tactic between two players to stop another player cashing.

percival09

Collusion just means when one or more players are working together under a "secret" agreement, and if they're doing that then it's collusion. but unfortunately if you have no evidence then you're not getting anywhere

calcalfold

Its the same tactic at the bubble in MTTs.

Do you have any evidence to say they were cheating or culluding? no

Is folding every hand cheating? no

Is folding every hand colluding? no


All that has happened, imo, is that you ended up in a situation where the 2 players at the other table were savvy enough to realise that if they folded every hand they would get a prize by waiting for one of you two to get knocked out.

unknown_username

Just out of interest which player bubbled ?

Dosnt sound like any collusion at all imo, like others have said its just a case of them having the other table open and knowing that one of you were going to do their work for them.

This game is all about winning cash and aslong as there is no collusion going on then they both seem as if they used the best way possible to get it.

GELDY

In Response to Re: The HU BH Shuffle is a cheat's dream:

Prob should be blaming the poor payout structure rather then the players... HU tourneys shouldn't pay odd numbers unless its winner takes all.
Posted by NColley

+1

nothing wrong with them waiting for one of you to bust - although if you two played the same way you could be waiting all night. hence the problem is the structure not the players. 

unknown_username

Had a similar sitiuation when my PC crashed!
Couldn't get the table to reload, tournament finished and I cashed.
Anyone watching could have thought I was colluding but It was purely doown to connection problems

BorinLoner

In Response to Re: The HU BH Shuffle is a cheat's dream:

In Response to Re: The HU BH Shuffle is a cheat's dream : +1 nothing wrong with them waiting for one of you to bust - although if you two played the same way you could be waiting all night. hence the problem is the structure not the players. 
Posted by GELDY

The table with the two chip leaders would benefit more from folding every hand. The shorter stacks would be forced all-in by the blinds earlier. Though obviously you can't discuss it and if the opponent you're facing isn't thinking the same thing, it isn't going to happen.

Implicit collusion isn't cheating and it isn't unethical. It's simply exploiting an opponent or opponents who may be making a mistake or in a bad situation, even if the player/players aren't at the same table as you. If that implicit collusion ever becomes explicit, then it would be cheating. If that happened in the chat box you'd definitely have a legitimate complaint.

The real culprit here is definitely the payout structure. Paying odd numbers in a heads-up tournament is asking for trouble and is something which will hopefully be remedied.

TommyD

Closing this up.

If you believe someone is colluding then report it to CS.

For what it's worth, IMO as described this event is in no way collusion and CS have acted correctly.