When a reg flat's your 4 bet - peril!

rancid

What do you guy's think of this, I am 150bb deep
My card's don't matter, just wondered on peoples views when oppo's flat your 4 bet

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
JiDongWon	Small blind		£0.15	£0.15	£30.68
snowy8016	Big blind		£0.30	£0.45	£10.03
	Your hole cards
rancid	Raise		£0.90	£1.35	£44.95
daz1owls22	Fold
x	Raise		£3.00	£4.35	£53.89
JiDongWon	Fold
snowy8016	Fold
rancid	Raise		£7.50	£11.85	£37.45
x	Call		£5.40	£17.25	£48.49
Flop
		3 2 J
rancid

jugglegeek

My guess is that he has aces. His standard line would be to 5bet but since he knows that you are likely to be 4betting from UTG extremely tight he figures you are unlikely to give him any more money from you pre-flop. From your previous comments on the forum you might just get away from kings if you are five bet in this spot. He thinks that if you have QQ/KK you will almost certainly bet at the flop.

That said, if you do have kings then bet at the flop and go broke. It's a cooler.

Lambert180

Rancid isn't folding KK pre 150xBB deep unless it's V a nit reg imo, and rightly so.

IDONKCALLU

your so deepso if opponent had aces he would 5 bet min raise to get it in i dnt think its aces could be qq tho or ak 

NColley

In Response to Re: When a reg flat's your 4 bet - peril!:

your so deepso if opponent had aces he would 5 bet min raise to get it in i dnt think its aces could be qq tho or ak 
Posted by IDONKCALLU

well you just told everyone how to exploit you with AA then.

percival09

peeling 4bet is fine if he balances well

IDONKCALLU

lol n colley na 

grantorino

In Response to Re: When a reg flat's your 4 bet - peril!:

peeling 4bet is fine if he balances well
Posted by percival09

 I'd say balance in this spot isn't that relevant unless they play a massive amount of hands v each other

Flatting 4b not necessarily terrible ip 150 deep

I'd say he could have JJ+, AK maybe a bit wider

huuuuume

what do you think villain is 3betting with? 

they have position, decent value to call, and you are both deep.  i think the range you credit them depends massively on what you think they will 3bet with in the first place. 

KKrippler

Depends on description of oppo.

Is he a reg or rec?

Do you have any history?

Whats his style of play?

In my experience, most (not all) will 5bet AA/KK, so this could be AK or 1010/JJ/QQ. 

If its 1010/JJ/QQ, I think they will get it in on a low flop. 

rancid

Thanks for response's

Do we really think that being 150bb deep is justication to call

Surely if oppo is flatting my 4 bet then they must put a high persentage of bluffs and depolarised hands in my range to make it profitable

huuuuume

In Response to Re: When a reg flat's your 4 bet - peril!:

Thanks for response's Do we really think that being 150bb deep is justication to call Surely if oppo is flatting my 4 bet then they must put a high persentage of bluffs and depolarised hands in my range to make it profitable
Posted by rancid

it depends what villain thinks your 4bet range is. 
depends if villain is capable of assigning a range when you make the 4bet
depends if you're up against one of those players who will never fold a pair pre flop etc

sometimes players don't put a great deal of thought into what they're doing...at 30nl there are going to be plenty of players who dont think much further than what they're hand is

Donttelmum

What did you have, and what did he have?  Finish the story :-)

rancid

In Response to Re: When a reg flat's your 4 bet - peril!:

What did you have, and what did he have?  Finish the story :-)
Posted by Donttelmum

Not much of a story but I had AK and oppo had 10's

o yeah can I have some of my money back please, you been running too good v me latley )

Donttelmum

Just note down your bank details and I'll send you a transfer :-)

donkeyplop

I flatted your 4 bet yesterday as I know you are capable of bluffing it off

rancid

In Response to Re: When a reg flat's your 4 bet - peril!:

I flatted your 4 bet yesterday as I know you are capable of bluffing it off
Posted by donkeyplop

Think your theory is mis guided when you slow rolls set's )

Flatting 4 bet's must be in a new book on how to exploit yoself, which I haven't read yet !

donkeyplop

I wasn't slow rolling as I hate that, but agree with the rest as i'm a bit rusty as have come back from 4ish months off.

rancid

In Response to Re: When a reg flat's your 4 bet - peril!:

I wasn't slow rolling as I hate that, but agree with the rest as i'm a bit rusty as have come back from 4ish months off.
Posted by donkeyplop

If I confused enough then I done my job )

IDK maybe unbalancing is the new way forward, everyone's talking about optimum versus exploitative - think unorthdox is the new 5 bet light D