blind steal and becoming pot commited

Buistyboy

Hi everyone

Playing a tourney recently i was on the button with a hand like q-9.  It was folded round to me and i looked at the two blinds.  both were relatively short stacked so i thought i'd be able to put in a standard raise and steal (blinds were quite high and def worth stealing). However, the small blind raised all in, the big blind folded, leaving me odds of better than 2-1 on the call.  I call figuring i am getting the right odds given the range the short stack would need to shove with.

Given that i was prepared to call the all-in should i have shoved in the first place, and increased the likelihood of winning the pot right there?

And should I have even been trying a steal there?

I appreciate i dont have chip stacks, structure etc, to help determine the right and wrong play, so any general advise on that scenario and way of thinking would be appreciated.

Ray

Talon

 You did the right thing by looking at their stack sizes before making a decision. Look to see if they would be pot committed to a raise. If you have only a marginal holding then ask yourself do you want to play for their entire stack. If you do then be the one to ask the question and shove rather than raise.

  The simple question is can you shove with Q9 , the answer is yes. Can you call a shove with Q9 that is much harder to answer.Pressurising the small stacks is good but accept that the reraise all in will happen so guard against it.The shove gives you 2 ways to win whereas calling the all in only gives you one

DOHHHHHHH

An all in is basically telling him that your on the steal, If you have a big hand, you would induce some action. I'd raise 50% of his stack, this is telling him you're prepared to call the re raise, but also looks stronger than a straight all in.

Definately target short stacks in this situation, I'm stealing every time, risking a small percentage of ur stack to try and progress in the tourny and have a chance of winning rather than just cashing.

Ur play was fine though, what did he have? Only worried about king queen and ace queen here, If hes got a pair of 9s upwards ur very unlucky, lower pair ur racing as a favourite (money in first he might fold)

Wonder what he had? lol

DOHH

FlashFlush

Nothing wrong with your move there in my opinion. Its your "Job" as a bigger stack to bully the short stacks, as long as your not dominated or vs a PP you are in a 40/60 race. I often find myself in these situations towards the end of a tourney and this is when you need that little bit of luck.

phil12uk

I think u know the answer here - shove or fold pre flop. Take the tricky decisions away from urself.

pr1nnyraid

generally just shove in these spots against short stacks, if you are ultimately going to make the call if they shove anyway. They may put a bit more thought into the hands they will be calling off their tourney life. But i think a better strategy, being shortish yourself, would be looking for a spot to shove over a PFR.

I did the same a couple of weeks ago at the full house in reigate, the only reason i made the raise not shove is because both the blinds were V.tight and would not get clever so would be folding to the raise alot here anyway without me risking doubling them up.

Buistyboy

thanks talon

once i called the all in, i did think to myself that i would have been better shoving in the first place, but i was also thinking it was maybe for too big a portion of my stack to risk it with q9, and maybe should have left it well alone.  Is there some sort of stack size ratio that would make the shove the right play e.g if i had 4 times the short stacks chips?

Buistyboy

thanks to all the responses

the other player had k-x and either hit or we both missed and i lost a chunk of my stack
Charles, this was actually in the posters freeroll a couple of weeks ago when i was at the same table as you, sat to your left.  I then lost with a-j all in v a-10 and was out.  I went from chip leader to being out in the space of three hands. (the blinds were quite high and the field closely bunched together).

I just couldnt help feel that it was a scenario I could have left alone, although i suppose that is maybe being too results orientated?

Talon

  As far as stack size is concerned you need to be able to take the hit if they call and you lose.Your cards do become important the lower there stacks are and hence the more liable they are to call. If you are certain that they will call then you do need some sort of playable hand that has a chance of holding up. Something like 87 suited is fine in these situations or even a raggy K

 But basically it is better to be doing this as a big stack rather than a middle stack.If you lose you could then find yourself shorty and that is not where you want to be

FlashFlush

In Response to Re: blind steal and becoming pot commited:

thanks to all the responses the other player had k-x and either hit or we both missed and i lost a chunk of my stack Charles, this was actually in the posters freeroll a couple of weeks ago when i was at the same table as you, sat to your left.  I then lost with a-j all in v a-10 and was out.  I went from chip leader to being out in the space of three hands. (the blinds were quite high and the field closely bunched together). I just couldnt help feel that it was a scenario I could have left alone, although i suppose that is maybe being too results orientated?
Posted by Buistyboy

 Yes like Talon said you need to be able to comfortably take a hit, for exampe you have 20k SB and BB have 5k, id be happy to go 40/60 their and if its near the cash bubble they are more likely to fold and try and ladder into the cash

Buistyboy

the field was so bunched together if i remember rightly that even though i was chip leader, i certainlt didnt have the chips to dominate the table.

Hogg321

depends on the small blinds stack really, if the small blind has a bigger stack than you then no, if they both have similar smaller stacks then yes id shove instead of stealing

J-Hartigan

Shove.

That is all.

What?

You expected me to say something different...?