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When is Minimum Betting Good?
While watching Skypoker Live from the studio, we often here the question posed by Tony and Ed about minimum betting and "Why" ?
Well I'm going to try and explain "When"? and "Why" ? In my opinion!
Now as we know, Cash and Tournaments play different so I'm forgetting about cash play and concentrating on tournament's ONLY....
There are very few times that I would 'Min" raise and agree in that there's not much point to it, no question is being asked by doing it and if a re-raise comes , are you going to 'call' or 'pass' and in both cases why bother minimum raising in the first place !!
The times I would "Min" raise is, say for instance it's mid-way in a tournament, I'm UTG, and blinds are 100/200 and I have a fair stack and the SB or BB was down to around 950 after having just got beaten in the previous hand. My Hole cards are monster, AA or KK , now a min raise here could possibly get a call going around the table , but it's also possible that the short stack will 'push' all-in for value with any two cards.
It then gives me the chance to re-raise the flat caller, had I bet more, say 600 I would have lost the chance of a re-raise and allowed player 2 the opportunity to take a flop for the small all-in bet of 950 ... It's one of the reasons why you have to watch all your opponents stacks because it can and should affect the way you bet ..
Another reason for "Min" betting is when your on the final table and your now heads up, and you are chip leader say 2/1 advantage, when your in the small blind you need to 'lean' on your opponent "Min' raising to steal with any two cards.
OK you'll soon hear about it if they find a hand or re-raise, so it's an easy pass, but players with short stacks when "heads up' are looking to be the aggressor with and all-in move, but they wont be calling, so 'Min' bets are a pain in their side and you can force errors eventually or leave them not realising how much you have stolen and they are then forced to move with any two cards !!
Well that's my reasons for 'Min" raising, not many I know but then I dont like to make them , but I do like it when others let me in for value wuth their 'Min' raises !!
glk, Oh Ohhh I'm in trouble now, OK so why do you "Min" raise ? or Never ?
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Comments
I never mr pre flop in cash.
an eg of when I may mr in cash post flop,
nl20 - 3 players see a raised flop and all are 100bb deep. I am on the btn with KQ
flop - Kc Kh Qh pot - £2.70
mp1 bets £2.50, mp2 calls £2.50. I would happily make it £5 here.
I have a virtual lock on the hand, there is a straight and flush draw there that if my opponents have they are not going anywhere (usually).
If they hit on the turn, thats great for me and the stacks are going in.
If they dont hit and it comes a brick, you can size your bet so they will be forced to call to see the river.
So, If I had flat called and slowplayed, it could be checked to me on the turn, where my pot building bet would have to be a lot smaller.
If I had raised more than minimum say 3-4x they could get away from their hand as I would be taking odds away from them that they didnt even have in the first place.
btw, obv royal flush could get there but congrats if u get it lol
min betting could be used for building a pot vs people who checked to you
so floppin watch it!--right!
when the blinds are low, early in a tournie, its a waste of space, unless you already have the pre-spotted loonie isolated and are playing aa or kk, and have already annoyed him in the chat box by asking the other players if they would like to play a game of "spot da loonie" with you.
always announce that you are 1-0 up in the game of "spot da loonie" before you make this play
just to be sure of provoking the re-raise, you can also announce that "this dope helps"----hope this helps
If you've nothing constructive to say !! They why bother posting ??
Every night that T K is on live TV he keeps say, "look guys were going to have to talk about "WHY" are we 'Min' raising," ? and to be fair it's a great question he asks, because in most cases I don't understand it either , also, there have been some good comments already on the thread !
Then along comes YOU, with your stupid comment, " I dont believe this thread " ..
SO whats not to believe ?? What is there in the thread that makes you so clever that the answers given so far are beneath your belief . Its comments like yours that makes it all worth while coming to this forum .. I give up !!
min raising can have it's place in several situations imo--you can get information, if your min raise is reraised, you can look at how much you were reraised and make a much more informed decision than you would have been able to make if the op had simply called a 3 bet, also short handed, it can give you the initative in a hand without too much of a commitment---late in tournies, with big blinds, I have found it a very useful tool, as the short stacks don't know what to make of it and are in shove mode, they are just as scared of a min raise as they are of any raise.
good thread mate
My views on min raising can be summaried as it is a usual tool to use in the right situation. But constant min-raising is oh so bad.
I do min raise, but only about 10% of the time, if that...
gives a fish like me the odds and i get lucky... This was in the 5k Bounty hunter earlier tonight...
But yeah if your opponent is any good and they min raise then sod the odds, they've got the nuts. On the situation Mahoney posted, even if I'm drawing to the nut flush on a paired board I'm straight out of there to the min raise, so strong.
This actually calls into question what I love about poker though - I know if you're good a min raise shows strength so I'll fold most hands - If you know that I know that then you call hoping I catch up, pot any turn, I shove, you win. Or something along those lines
It means that your opponent can make a VERY cost effective bluff and take you off most hands by minimum raising on the flop with any two cards.
Of course if I know that you know that I tend to do this then I will still make the minimum raise with the nuts hoping that you shove against me.
It's a very complicated game at times, isn't it?
The min bet however is even more badly used and even more surprisingly overrespected. Again it is used as a default setting and the sheer number of min bet steals on the site is incredible.I myself have used the min bet brilliantly on one occasion
Typical 2p/4p scenario going to the flop 6 handed. I had limped on the SB with a small PP.The flop came down and gave me quads so i min bet out and got called by all 5 players. When i min bet the turn i got raised so the field then shrank to 2 for the remainder of the pot.This is one of the few times when the min bet is good. Used as a tool to make people think they have the odds to call. The only other times when a min bet is good is late in a tournament when the blinds are high and represent a large proportion of a players stack or when trying to induce a reraise.
Ha! That's exactly what I was thinking - turns out I in fact had the nuts and I take your money sir
Well played sir, nice hand, good game.