Verbal Betting Denominations?

Donatello1

Hi

I would like some thoughts on the following from any dealers / floors please

In a no limit holdem tournament, blinds at 100/200, I lead the action on the turn wanting to bet 3500 into a pot of 6000, throw in a 5000 chip and announce "3 and a half".
Next guy to act then states because I said 3 and a half, my bet should be 350 because that is the denominations of the blinds. Says I can call the floor for a ruling but I've seen this upheld before.
The guy was obviously wanting a cheap draw. I'm not sure who would bet 350 into a 6K pot ?
Is this technically correct, an angle shoot or just bad sportsmanship?
Your thoughts please....?
(Not sour grapes as I still won the pot)

Thanks

FlashFlush

I'm not a dealer, but played a fair amount of live poker in the past. IMO this is just a common sense situation, like you say, its a pot of 6000, so the chances are it's going to be a bet of 3500... The dealer should just confirm with you what you meant, but just take it as a lesson I suppose, and make sue you clearly state what you are betting. I've never heard of the denominations rule... think he just wanted to see a cheap river.

CraigSG1

Your bet sizing live is always in relation to the pot. So there fore "3 and a half" would mean 3500. You alwasy see in cash games on TV and Tournaments the exact same thing happening. 

For example in a pot of $2 million and blinds/antes at say 25,000/50,000 and ante of 5,000 and a player says "one and a half", he does not mean 75,000 into a $2 million pot! Plus i'm assuming you would have the chips to bet that small if you wanted too!

jonjo75

In Response to Re: Verbal Betting Denominations?:

Your bet sizing live is always in relation to the pot. So there fore "3 and a half" would mean 3500. You alwasy see in cash games on TV and Tournaments the exact same thing happening.  For example in a pot of $2 million and blinds/antes at say 25,000/50,000 and ante of 5,000 and a player says "one and a half", he does not mean 75,000 into a $2 million pot! Plus i'm assuming you would have the chips to bet that small if you wanted too!
Posted by CraigSG1

The example you give is not the same. He is not saying one and a half big blinds ( 75000) he is either saying 1,500,000 or 150,000.
I have had the same situation on my table and the floor decided that the smaller bet had to be counted even though I dont think anyone says three and a half when they mean 350. They say three fifty.

You say he said you can call the floor if you wanted. Did you?

Slykllist

He's probably correct on a technicality and the floor would probably agree with him.  But..... he's also being a d*** when I'm sure everyone on the table knows exactly what your intention was.

It's another example of why it's so important to be very clear in stating your intentions very clearly before making an action as there are always a few players that will try to exploit any opportunities like this.

LARSON7

You can't raise to 350 would need to be 400, so in that case you would be held to a minimum raise!

Just say 3.5 k easy job done. ANd say it before you put your chip in.

jonjo75

In Response to Re: Verbal Betting Denominations?:

You can't raise to 350 would need to be 400, so in that case you would be held to a minimum raise! Just say 3.5 k easy job done. ANd say it before you put your chip in.
Posted by LARSON7

The blinds are 100/200 he can bet 350.

LARSON7

So he can! It's early

Donatello1

Thanks for you replies..

I didn't call the floor as I have been on a table where this has happened before and seen the smaller bet size upheld so didn't bother.
It is only really 2 guys who exploit this. Needless to say it defines their hands to draws as if they think they are in front, the chips would go in.

I take responsibility for not saying the exact amount, but it doesn't stop you feeling these guys actions are unethical.
It's in the same bracket of asking to see mucked cards at showdown.

Mohican

In Response to Re: Verbal Betting Denominations?:

Thanks for you replies.. I didn't call the floor as I have been on a table where this has happened before and seen the smaller bet size upheld so didn't bother. It is only really 2 guys who exploit this. Needless to say it defines their hands to draws as if they think they are in front, the chips would go in. I take responsibility for not saying the exact amount, but it doesn't stop you feeling these guys actions are unethical. It's in the same bracket of asking to see mucked cards at showdown.
Posted by Donatello1

I'd have called the floor, ruling may have gone your way depending on TD.

BorinLoner

If a tournament director decided that "Three and a half" in this context meant three and a half times the blind, I'd never play in that card room again.

Talk of bet sizing in terms of big blinds is purely a tool for strategy. Any actual bet is described in chip values. If your opponent is suggesting otherwise, he's trying to stitch you up. Any TD agreeing with that player is incompetent.

Slykllist

In Response to Re: Verbal Betting Denominations?:

If a tournament director decided that "Three and a half" in this context meant three and a half times the blind, I'd never play in that card room again. Talk of bet sizing in terms of big blinds is purely a tool for strategy. Any actual bet is described in chip values. If your opponent is suggesting otherwise, he's trying to stitch you up. Any TD agreeing with that player is incompetent.
Posted by BorinLoner

That's not what was being suggested, he's saying that as the denomination of the blinds is hundreds (not thousands), that a bet announced as 3 and a half should be in the same denomination so 3 and a half hundred - 350.

It's a cheap trick, but I think the floor 'may' have had to uphold it.

10NGY

Don't you have the right to muck your cards at showdown?

BorinLoner

Again, that would not be correct. How can "Three and a half" ever be interpreted as "three and a half hundred". When does any reasonable person ever refer to "half a hundred"?

Even if you think that's a legitimate and reasonable use of language. Absolutely nothing makes it more legitimate than three and a half thousand. All the indications would be that a 5000 chip put into a 6000 pot with the words "three and a half" would indicate three and a half thousand.

That's what matters - the bet you're indicating. As I said, any competent TD would uphold the 3500 bet, not the ridiculous suggestion that 350 is indicated by a 5k chip and the words "Three and a half".

Slykllist

In Response to Re: Verbal Betting Denominations?:

Don't you have the right to muck your cards at showdown?
Posted by 10NGY

Yes and no...... You can muck them, but your opponent has the right to see them, that's why on any online site you can go to hand histories and see your opponents cards if they are mucked at showdown.  If you think about this, it's right if you call a bet on the river, you've paid to see his cards so they should go on their backs.

It's become very common practice when playing live for losing hands to be mucked at showdown as this prevents giving information to your opponent.  It is considered bad etiquette to ask to see your opponents cards in this situation, but you have every right to see them and if you ask, the dealer has to show the mucked cards to the table.

BigHawk89

Thats unreal. Wasnt the guy embaressed by been such a d***? lol