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is there any excuse for this?

edited May 2013 in The Poker Clinic


PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalancestienSmall blind £0.10£0.10£22.76xBig blind £0.20£0.30£36.25 Your hole cards10A   RemyMartinFold    davecharmsRaise £0.40£0.70£17.33telboy111Fold    robbie1992Raise £1.20£1.90£21.04stienCall £1.10£3.00£21.66xRaise £1.80£4.80£34.45davecharmsFold    robbie1992Call £0.80£5.60£20.24stienCall £0.80£6.40£20.86Flop  4108   stienCheck    xBet £2.00£8.40£32.45robbie1992Raise £5.20£13.60£15.04stienFold    xRaise £6.40£20.00£26.05robbie1992All-in £15.04£35.04£0.00xCall £11.84£46.88£14.21xShow88   robbie1992Show10A   Turn  5   River  J   xWinThree 8s£45.08 £59.29


is there any excuse for this? the guy was very fishy and this was towards the end of the session i was tired and the time i organised to quit i had gone past :( should i just flat on the flop and try to get to showdown? ifi did flat i woulda folded the turn possiably and not have lost my stack. 

Comments

  • edited May 2013
    I'm surprised to see him with 8s... but most of the time he will have overpairs here. A10 shouldn't be calling many reraises pre.
  • edited May 2013
    In Response to Re: is there any excuse for this?:
    I'm surprised to see him with 8s... but most of the time he will have overpairs here. A10 shouldn't be calling many reraises pre.
    Posted by 10NGY
    Yeah but his 4bet was so small, the guy was so fishy aswell but I think I got it in way too light, could of called him down I guess, I made the pot big when if the money goes in I'm always nearly beaten :(
  • edited May 2013
    Flat the flop.

    Turn is tough if he leads again, probably a fold on that specific card.
  • edited May 2013

    First think about pre-flop. Usually a cold pre-flop 4-bet from the blinds is a very nutted range, all of which totally dominates our AT. Against that range calling, even in position, is likely to be very bad.

    If we think that our opponent has a super-wide 4-bet range pre-flop, then I don't mind the call. Assuming we think AT is ahead of alot of that range, then we can see a flop in position. We must think our opponent is going to be making lots of moves, so we need to be willing to call down fairly light or make moves when we miss, representing good flops for our perceived range.

    However, we hit the flop and all those thoughts go out of the window when we make the raise. Now we've got top-pair and, if he does have a wide range including lots of weaker hands, we're just forcing him to fold all those weak hands. Why? Call the flop bet if he can be betting lots of weaker hands and let him keep betting them.

    When we raise, we let him fold his weaker hands and play his bigger hands for easy value against us.

  • edited May 2013
    Why are you 3betting pre?

    If you call the 4bet it can't be to fold post too often esp  if you make a pair

    Flat flop and call down as played
  • edited May 2013
  • edited May 2013
    hate the raise otf
    hate the 4bet shove even more

    flat otf
  • edited May 2013
    In Response to Re: is there any excuse for this?:
    Why are you 3betting pre? If you call the 4bet it can't be to fold post too often esp  if you make a pair Flat flop and call down as played
    Posted by grantorino
    such a tiny 4bet we can hardly fold pre multi-way getting such a great price. So we can fold post, we don't have to get too attached to our hand, can flat otf and re-eval turn
  • edited May 2013
    Yeah maybe, spr is still going to be pretty low in general though when we call a flop bet

    What turns are you folding?
  • edited May 2013
    In Response to Re: is there any excuse for this?:
    Yeah maybe, spr is still going to be pretty low in general though when we call a flop bet What turns are you folding?
    Posted by grantorino
    well if he barrels the turn I'm prob folding a lot unless we improve/his sizing is awful
  • edited May 2013
    flat the flop bloating a pot here kinda bad its a wet flop 

    so id call flop n prob sigh fold 
  • edited May 2013
    Te 3b seems ok to me pre. Peeling the 4b aswell. 

    Post flop though is just insane. You define this player as fishy. Surely when a fish starts going nuts your always beat here. 

    Peel > Raise > Fold

    Once we raise and he raises again i think we're always beat
  • edited May 2013
    u should never lose 100 bb on tptk on any flop tbh 

    small ball poker ftw
  • edited May 2013
    In Response to Re: is there any excuse for this?:
    u should never lose 100 bb on tptk on any flop tbh  small ball poker ftw
    Posted by IDONKCALLU
    disagree. theres times when i think 100BB with TPTK is more than correct. 
  • edited May 2013
    never getting married to tptk   to lose 100bb i think is terribad
  • edited May 2013
    In Response to Re: is there any excuse for this?:
    u should never lose 100 bb on tptk on any flop tbh  small ball poker ftw
    Posted by IDONKCALLU
    Srsly? There's plenty of times it's fine
  • edited May 2013
    lol another pro comment from the pro himself
  • edited May 2013
    lol iv heard that said before "good players dont stack off with top pair" but thats not one answer for situations in poker its all dependant on the players/reads etc.  This was bad i had played well then do a random thing like this so theres no excuses really its bad play, the fact he was fishy convinced me to stack off.....but too stack off to this extent is wrong isnt it?
  • edited May 2013
    It all depends how they are fishy, just being 'fishy' alone isn't much of an assessment.

    If they're fishy in the sense that they'll see a flop like this and think they have the nuts and happy to get it in with QT, then it's not so bad.

    If they're fishy in the sense that they will just keep piling money into the pot with complete junk and no equity just trying to make you fold, then again it might not be so bad to stack off to them with TPTK, but I'd do it by flatting and calling down to let them carry on bluffing.
  • edited May 2013
    In Response to Re: is there any excuse for this?:
    It all depends how they are fishy, just being 'fishy' alone isn't much of an assessment. If they're fishy in the sense that they'll see a flop like this and think they have the nuts and happy to get it in with QT, then it's not so bad. If they're fishy in the sense that they will just keep piling money into the pot with complete junk and no equity just trying to make you fold, then again it might not be so bad to stack off to them with TPTK, but I'd do it by flatting and calling down to let them carry on bluffing.
    Posted by Lambert180
    id posted several times and you hadnt commented i was starting to get worried! lol
    yes thats correct the way i played it makes it very unlikely that i will win the pot, but then i guess random things like this is why im playing at 20 nl lol :(
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