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Slowly getting there.....

robbie1992robbie1992
edited May 2013 in The Poker Clinic
PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalancemattlessSmall blind £0.10£0.10£19.76el-divioBig blind £0.20£0.30£19.40RubbernixSit out     Your hole cardsQQ   robbie1992Raise £0.60£0.90£18.60HARPER9Fold    Adicts89Fold    mattlessRaise £1.70£2.60£18.06el-divioFold    robbie1992Call £1.20£3.80£17.40Flop  736   mattlessBet £2.85£6.65£15.21robbie1992Call £2.85£9.50£14.55Turn  5   mattlessBet £5.80£15.30£9.41robbie1992Fold    mattlessMuck    mattlessWin £9.02 £18.43mattlessReturn £5.80£0.48£24.23
I have constant problems with QQ but im trying to take some of the advice iv gotton on board.  I think this is a simple fold, but i thought "his got kings/ace, i always lose with qq" ..which is a form of tilt iv been reading which is bad.

My question is :

what hand does he do this with? surely KK/AA slows down? i thought the turn meant id get to showdown...does this maybe suggest he turnt his /ak/aq sorta hand into a bluff??

also if the turn blanks do i still fold? i have no reads at all on this opponent?
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Comments

  • grantorinograntorino
    edited May 2013

    I might 4b/c pre, in a vacuum I like the call v an unknown at 20nl from those positions

    Completely readless I call down, but I'm not loving it.
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  • robbie1992robbie1992
    edited May 2013
    In Response to Slowly getting there.....:
    Player Action Cards Amount Pot Balance mattless Small blind   £0.10 £0.10 £19.76 el-divio Big blind   £0.20 £0.30 £19.40 Rubbernix Sit out           Your hole cards Q Q       robbie1992 Raise   £0.60 £0.90 £18.60 HARPER9 Fold         Adicts89 Fold         mattless Raise   £1.70 £2.60 £18.06 el-divio Fold         robbie1992 Call   £1.20 £3.80 £17.40 Flop     7 3 6       mattless Bet   £2.85 £6.65 £15.21 robbie1992 Call   £2.85 £9.50 £14.55 Turn     5       mattless Bet   £5.80 £15.30 £9.41 robbie1992 Fold         mattless Muck         mattless Win   £9.02   £18.43 mattless Return   £5.80 £0.48 £24.23 I have constant problems with QQ but im trying to take some of the advice iv gotton on board.  I think this is a simple fold, but i thought "his got kings/ace, i always lose with qq" ..which is a form of tilt iv been reading which is bad. My question is : what hand does he do this with? surely KK/AA slows down? i thought the turn meant id get to showdown...does this maybe suggest he turnt his /ak/aq sorta hand into a bluff?? also if the turn blanks do i still fold? i have no reads at all on this opponent?
    Posted by robbie1992
    Readless ur calling down? On that board, what u beating that his betting ?
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  • Lambert180Lambert180
    edited May 2013
    I agree.

    He's 3bet so he's not gonna have many hands in his range which have made a set or the straight.

    He can have AA/KK sure, but he would probably also bet flop and turn with 99/TT/JJ, also 88 which has picked up the OESD while still beign an overpair. This is a bit more opponent dependent as to whether he fires the 2nd barrel or not but he could also be doing it with AK/AQ.

    He could also be doing it with quite a few flush draw combos.

    Readless we can't always just assume they've got the nuts every time.
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  • DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH
    edited May 2013
    In Response to Re: Slowly getting there.....:
    I agree. He's 3bet so he's not gonna have many hands in his range which have made a set or the straight. He can have AA/KK sure, but he would probably also bet flop and turn with 99/TT/JJ, also 88 which has picked up the OESD while still beign an overpair. This is a bit more opponent dependent as to whether he fires the 2nd barrel or not but he could also be doing it with AK/AQ. He could also be doing it with quite a few flush draw combos. Readless we can't always just assume they've got the nuts every time.
    Posted by Lambert180

    You give em credit for 3betting 88/99/TT here readless? Even AQ?

    Think you had the 2nd best hand OP. not sure what street u shud fold though.
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  • Lambert180Lambert180
    edited May 2013
    Maybe not 88/99 then but deffo TT/JJ so there are as many underpairs (to us) as there are overpairs that play it the same imo. If you add in FDs and AK, tons more hands in his range we're ahead of.

    And obv there's only 8 combos each of AA and KK. There's 16 combos or AK alone, before we include JJ, TT, FDs. I think we're ahead more than we're behind.
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  • RobIlesRobIles
    edited May 2013
    What was your plan?? Flat 3bet with QQ then fold on a 7 high board to a second barrell. Seems strange to me may aswell fold pre. 

    I dont think he'll be betting many rivers with AA/KK due to board texture, even if he has them, think he has 10s-Qs/AKs just as often as played. Call turn, evaluate river. If he shoves river snap.
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  • RobIlesRobIles
    edited May 2013
    Whole idea of flatting the 3bet is to keep hands in that you crush and if you think he'll only 5bet shove hands that crush you and fold out ones that you crush when you 4bet. When you flat and that flop drops folding is incredibly bad in my eyes, youve kept the bluffs/hands that you crush in why are you folding. He has 99 for sure
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  • robbie1992robbie1992
    edited May 2013
    This hand causes so many problems.
    I don't care I'm not calling here, these are my reasons .
    1. Her could be a nit for all I no so without reads I won't be doing anything crazy Until I see a few hands.
    2. He 3 bet from the sb so I'm swayed towards him having a stronger narrower range.
    3. If I call turn I don't put in that much of my stack to re evaluate on the river, I either fold or call river no matter what... Apart from  an A, K or obv straight card.
    4. At 20nl will my op really be value betting the turn on that board?? I don't think so this bet is either air or very strong rnge IMO, aa/kk/ sets/ straight

    It's not a good spot I agree it's maybe waste of my hand but Iv been in this spot enough to realise if I don't have reads ushouldnt be  getting stacks in
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  • RobIlesRobIles
    edited May 2013
    In Response to Re: Slowly getting there.....:
    This hand causes so many problems. I don't care I'm not calling here, these are my reasons . 1. Her could be a nit for all I no so without reads I won't be doing anything crazy Until I see a few hands. 2. He 3 bet from the sb so I'm swayed towards him having a stronger narrower range. 3. If I call turn I don't put in that much of my stack to re evaluate on the river, I either fold or call river no matter what... Apart from  an A, K or obv straight card. 4. At 20nl will my op really be value betting the turn on that board?? I don't think so this bet is either air or very strong rnge IMO, aa/kk/ sets/ straight It's not a good spot I agree it's maybe waste of my hand but Iv been in this spot enough to realise if I don't have reads ushouldnt be  getting stacks in
    Posted by robbie1992
    Slightly contradictive, if you assigned him to a narrow range pre how on earth can he have sets or a straight? If the flop came 222 would put him on a2? Yes you should be getting them in, flat turn with the plan to flat the river. He will check pot control 9s-As anyway I would think, so rub your hands if he shoves river. He is playing the hand identically with over pairs that you beat, so yes he will be value betting hands that you beat. Forget reads get them in. Don't you just wait for quads before getting reads lol. People tend to 3bet a wider range than Aces and Kings, your effectivley just set mining here which is terrible with Qs vs unknown.
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  • grantorinograntorino
    edited May 2013
    In Response to Re: Slowly getting there.....:
    This hand causes so many problems. I don't care I'm not calling here, these are my reasons . 1. Her could be a nit for all I no so without reads I won't be doing anything crazy Until I see a few hands. 2. He 3 bet from the sb so I'm swayed towards him having a stronger narrower range. 3. If I call turn I don't put in that much of my stack to re evaluate on the river, I either fold or call river no matter what... Apart from  an A, K or obv straight card. 4. At 20nl will my op really be value betting the turn on that board?? I don't think so this bet is either air or very strong rnge IMO, aa/kk/ sets/ straight It's not a good spot I agree it's maybe waste of my hand but Iv been in this spot enough to realise if I don't have reads ushouldnt be  getting stacks in
    Posted by robbie1992
    1 he could also be a spewtard 
    2 fair enough. 
    3 ok
    4 lol what straights does he have. If he has sets he can have worse overpairs. He can have air, fds with overs All this assuming he doesn't view you as spewy

    Why is your line better than
    ( a) folding pre
    (B) folding flop
    (C) calling down

    Why post if you are so sure you are right

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