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getting caught out by river cards

devonfish5devonfish5
edited May 2013 in The Poker Clinic
have I got to start getting away from calling in these spots?
as it is happening quite frequently,and costing me money?

should have just CALLED the £2.50 river bet,shouldn't I? looking back at it again.
but that's easy to say now,isn't it?
did I play it to passive and let him hit?
still unlucky though,isn't it?
or just badly played all round?
AmountPotBalance
xSmall blind  £0.05 £0.05 £15.93
PiranhaNo1 Big blind  £0.10 £0.15 £8.32
  Your hole cards
  • 3
  • 3
     
devonfish5 Raise  £0.30 £0.45 £11.03
TONKS1 Fold     
jamesydoc Call  £0.30 £0.75 £8.65
WiLLington Fold     
x Call  £0.25 £1.00 £15.68
PiranhaNo1 Fold     
Flop
   
  • J
  • 3
  • 6
     
xCheck     
devonfish5 Bet  £0.30 £1.30 £10.73
jamesydoc Fold     
xRaise  £0.80 £2.10 £14.88
devonfish5 Call  £0.50 £2.60 £10.23
Turn
   
  • 2
     
x Bet  £0.90 £3.50 £13.98
devonfish5 Call  £0.90 £4.40 £9.33
River
   
  • 8
     
xBet  £2.50 £6.90 £11.48
devonfish5 Raise  £5.00 £11.90 £4.33
x All-in  £11.48 £23.38 £0.00
devonfish5 All-in  £4.33 £27.71 £0.00
x Unmatched bet  £4.65 £23.06 £4.65
xShow
  • 8
  • 8
   
devonfish5 Show
  • 3
  • 3
   
x Win Three 8s £21.66  £26.31
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Comments

  • Lambert180Lambert180
    edited May 2013
    Bet WAY bigger on the flop, probably 70p ish. I can't think of many (any) scenarios in a cash game where we would ever want to c-bet for 30% of the pot.

    I'm either raising the turn, or a better line imo, flatting the turn with the intention of raising practically all rivers.

    Don't like the clickback on the river, if he'll call a clickback with worse, he'd probably call a shove too.

    You've let him get there by being so passive. Hate the situation we're in after clicking back the river, and getting shoved on but don't think we can fold now.

    When you flop big hands like sets, you need to be thinking about how you can stack him... your tiny bet on the flop, your flat on the turn, your click back on the river, all make it virtually impossible to get him to put stacks in (apart from scenarios like this where we're beat).
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  • IDONKCALLUIDONKCALLU
    edited May 2013
    bet bigger each street   u bet small priced the guy in 
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  • DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH
    edited May 2013
    Really tiny flop bet Dev. more conviction!!!!!!
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  • devonfish5devonfish5
    edited May 2013
    In Response to Re: getting caught out by river cards:
    Bet WAY bigger on the flop, probably 70p ish. I can't think of many (any) scenarios in a cash game where we would ever want to c-bet for 30% of the pot. I'm either raising the turn, or a better line imo, flatting the turn with the intention of raising practically all rivers. Don't like the clickback on the river, if he'll call a clickback with worse, he'd probably call a shove too. You've let him get there by being so passive. Hate the situation we're in after clicking back the river, and getting shoved on but don't think we can fold now. When you flop big hands like sets, you need to be thinking about how you can stack him... your tiny bet on the flop, your flat on the turn, your click back on the river, all make it virtually impossible to get him to put stacks in (apart from scenarios like this where we're beat).
    Posted by Lambert180
    thank you Paul
    I still cant get used to betting big when I hit as you can see.
    also i'm not betting enough of the pot on each street,as you can see.
    on river again I've messed up by clicking back as you say.and calling allin was horrible too,but i'm sure you can see why I did.
    thought pre flop was good though.  lol

    anyway,still early days and at least you have shown me exactly what I've done wrong..again.
    i'll try and do better in future.  lol
    :)
    dev

    anyway,at least I've had some
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  • devonfish5devonfish5
    edited May 2013
    In Response to Re: getting caught out by river cards:
    bet bigger each street   u bet small priced the guy in 
    Posted by IDONKCALLU
    ty steve
    :)
    dev
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  • devonfish5devonfish5
    edited May 2013
    In Response to Re: getting caught out by river cards:
    Really tiny flop bet Dev. more conviction!!!!!!
    Posted by DOHHHHHHH
    yeah,gotta get used to making my minimum bet 50% of pot at least,if not more.
    ty mate
    :)
    dev

    ps;made a note; bet 50%pot minimum every street

    see if I can do it.  lol
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  • IDONKCALLUIDONKCALLU
    edited May 2013
    make your bets the same if its a bluff or not so if u missed this flop still bet 60p say and if u hit set same bet that way u dnt get any tells :)
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  • devonfish5devonfish5
    edited May 2013
    In Response to Re: getting caught out by river cards:
    make your bets the same if its a bluff or not so if u missed this flop still bet 60p say and if u hit set same bet that way u dnt get any tells :)
    Posted by IDONKCALLU
    ty steve

    yes that makes perfect sense mate

    (still got a lot to learn)  lol

    :)

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  • grantorinograntorino
    edited May 2013
    In Response to Re: getting caught out by river cards:
    Bet WAY bigger on the flop, probably 70p ish. I can't think of many (any) scenarios in a cash game where we would ever want to c-bet for 30% of the pot. I'm either raising the turn, or a better line imo, flatting the turn with the intention of raising practically all rivers. Don't like the clickback on the river, if he'll call a clickback with worse, he'd probably call a shove too. You've let him get there by being so passive. Hate the situation we're in after clicking back the river, and getting shoved on but don't think we can fold now. When you flop big hands like sets, you need to be thinking about how you can stack him... your tiny bet on the flop, your flat on the turn, your click back on the river, all make it virtually impossible to get him to put stacks in (apart from scenarios like this where we're beat).
    Posted by Lambert180
    Should he play more aggressively to make him fold a pair? You haven't advocated a more aggressive line on any street, just different sizing. I agree his sizing should be bigger flop and river
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  • Lambert180Lambert180
    edited May 2013
    Sigh, knew I'd get picked up on this, and hadn't bothered to go back and sort it.

    Obv we're not betting bigger (or potentially raising) with the intention of trying to make him fold a worse hand, just to get more value from him. Initially, I said I preferred flatting the turn, but looking at their sizing, I think it's too small for us to just call and let them set themselves such a good price
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  • grantorinograntorino
    edited May 2013
    In Response to Re: getting caught out by river cards:
    Sigh, knew I'd get picked up on this, and hadn't bothered to go back and sort it. Obv we're not betting bigger (or potentially raising) with the intention of trying to make him fold a worse hand, just to get more value from him. Initially, I said I preferred flatting the turn, but looking at their sizing, I think it's too small for us to just call and let them set themselves such a good price
    Posted by Lambert180
    Yeah I know you get this. Just hate the phrase "you let him get there" when our intention is to keep villain calling. Obv bet flop bigger for value, I don't hate 3betting it, calling prob standard depends on villain. I dunno about calling turn, I think raising enough so we can jam river prob best, call ok too. He's very few draws so not too worried about letting him set his price

    Dev, bigger flop and river , as played calling river shove is fine imo
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  • unknown_usernameunknown_username
    edited May 2013
    Its a really dry flop so I would bet say 60-75p but I think this is an ideal spot to really think about our c-betting size. If we c-bet 60-70p as a general rule (usually just over half pot) then we should balance our range a little by betting 60-70p with monsters such as a set on a super dry board otherwise we become readable.
     
    If its a slightly more dangerous board, say a possible flush draw as well as it being J high then we not only get value off J's but also flush draws so I would bet slightly more to charge them to see the next card but I don't mean £1.50, I mean more like 70-85p instead of our c-betting price of 60-70p.

    Lets face it. Its a set over a set so its just a little unfortunate in this instance but yeah your betsizing needs a little work.

    On a more basic level. We hit a set, so firstly, YEAHHHH! Secondly, lets start shovelling those chips in eh?
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  • devonfish5devonfish5
    edited May 2013
    In Response to Re: getting caught out by river cards:
    In Response to Re: getting caught out by river cards : Yeah I know you get this. Just hate the phrase "you let him get there" when our intention is to keep villain calling. Obv bet flop bigger for value, I don't hate 3betting it, calling prob standard depends on villain. I dunno about calling turn, I think raising enough so we can jam river prob best, call ok too. He's very few draws so not too worried about letting him set his price Dev, bigger flop and river , as played calling river shove is fine imo
    Posted by grantorino
    ty gt

    yes,thats my limited thinking thinking atm I want villain calling.

    bet sizing is a problem atm but it's fixable.

    got to get the balance right between calling & folding these big river shoves.

    played one y'day where I called similar to here and he had trips to my flush,so I guess atm it's all 'swings and roundabouts' while i'm still learning.
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  • devonfish5devonfish5
    edited May 2013
    In Response to Re: getting caught out by river cards:
    Its a really dry flop so I would bet say 60-75p but I think this is an ideal spot to really think about our c-betting size. If we c-bet 60-70p as a general rule (usually just over half pot) then we should balance our range a little by betting 60-70p with monsters such as a set on a super dry board otherwise we become readable.   If its a slightly more dangerous board, say a possible flush draw as well as it being J high then we not only get value off J's but also flush draws so I would bet slightly more to charge them to see the next card but I don't mean £1.50, I mean more like 70-85p instead of our c-betting price of 60-70p. Lets face it. Its a set over a set so its just a little unfortunate in this instance but yeah your betsizing needs a little work. On a more basic level. We hit a set, so firstly, YEAHHHH! Secondly, lets start shovelling those chips in eh?
    Posted by DrSharp
    ty dr,

    yeah,i've made a note to bet 50% of pot minimum so i'll start using that as my guide and go from there,
    from tomorrow.
    just watched the mastercash live hour so seen the experts doing it properly.  lol

    saw Rancid on a 25p/50p table so looks like he's making good progress.  wp ranny.

    I've a long way to go I know,but I live in hope I might one day get there.  lol
    well a 5p/10p mastercash table then.  lol

    :)
    dev
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