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Is there anything wrong with this play?
This was a £5 DYM... I was dealt the KQ clubs on the button and raise standard 3x and was called by the the BB and the preflop limper....was I right in raising on the button with suited connectors & was it a big enough raise or should I have shoved pre?
I got shoved at on the flop and was always calling with 2 top pairs.....
paulsmoneySmall blind 15.0015.001190.00*****Big blind 30.0045.001995.00 Your hole cardsQK ******Call 30.0075.001990.00Bridge790Fold larry1959Raise 120.00195.001470.00paulsmoneyFold *****Call 90.00285.001905.00*****Call 90.00375.001900.00Flop 6QK DollyAAAll-in 1905.002280.000.00mpl270527Fold larry1959All-in 1470.003750.000.0
I got shoved at on the flop and was always calling with 2 top pairs.....
paulsmoneySmall blind 15.0015.001190.00*****Big blind 30.0045.001995.00 Your hole cardsQK ******Call 30.0075.001990.00Bridge790Fold larry1959Raise 120.00195.001470.00paulsmoneyFold *****Call 90.00285.001905.00*****Call 90.00375.001900.00Flop 6QK DollyAAAll-in 1905.002280.000.00mpl270527Fold larry1959All-in 1470.003750.000.0
Comments
Never folding the flop.
As a side note: Loads of people are of the opinion that in level 2 of a DYM you can just put this hand in the bin pre, and they're probably right, I dunno.
Probably got 2 diamonds with that shove on the flop.
Did you win the hand?
Larry, you shouldn't be considering shoving pre-flop. You'd be putting so much money in that you could never be called by worse hands and the pot is far too small to be worth risking your stack to win. You'd be very unlikely to want to simply shove if you had AA, so why play KQ that way? Our stack is far too big to shove pre-flop.
Don't think of KQ as being suited connectors. Suited connectors would generally be JT and lower. Think of KQ as two high cards. It's an important distinction because, with a hand like KQ, when we hit just one pair there's a much better chance of it being good than if we hit one pair with 78.
Think of two high suited cards and suited connectors as different types of hands because they fare very differently when making a pair.
You've played this hand just fine. The 4x over the limper is perfect, since we don't mind if they call. If they call this raise and miss the flop, we win more with our c-bet than if they'd just folded pre-flop.
Villian turned over AK.....and hit his/her A on the turn...so it was adios amigo
The limp, call and shove on the flop is quite a strange play. If they had a big hand pre like AA, KK, QQ or AK you'd imagine they limped to induce a raise preflop with the idea then to shove/reraise your reraise (but he/she only flat called your reraise. if it was just a big slow play with AA they can't really complain because it's the chance you take by slow playing one of these big hands.
Because it's early stages of a dym I cant see them doing this with a flush draw (wouldnt rule it out though) and you'd call even if they did have the draw anyway.
What did he/she have?
edit: just seen your post. Playing AK like this preflop and on the flop in a DYM is just poor play (in my opinion).
Thats just unlucky mate.
Keep doing the same things.
I have noticed lately a lot of people trying to trap with big hands , seems to be the in-thing to do.
Its quite funny when they get their Aces bust tho ! :-)
GL
I know lots of players (and JohnConnor even put it in his DYM guide) that say in the first 2 levels you should only be opening JJ+ and AK because in the early stages it just doesn't warrant taking any risk for probably little reward in a game where we just need to out last 3 other players because people will generally be tight so we'll only build a pot if we're coolering someone or beat.
DYMs are horrible aint they
Personally I would literally do exactly the same thing Larry did.
If you want to make more money, then use your head and adapt. Don't pass up those obvious value opportunities.
You can use a guide when you're a total beginner to get a basic grasp of some of the concepts. Far too many "experienced" players never move on from those.
By the way, the player with the AK who shoved on the flop was the Big Blind not the limper.
I appreciate it's not your own opinion, liamboi. I don't think you should be accepting this sort of counsel without forcing this person to justify their suggestion in every way. I don't think you'd be convinced.
Can you explain why limping this hand on the button is a better value line than raising?
Does it not stand to reason that giving ourselves an opportunity to win the pot pre-flop or win a bigger pot post-flop with a c-bet is better than not having those opportunities?
I can see why you played it but level 2 in dym...its just not worth getting involved imo and a lot who do tend to set mine with ppr's. I can see why once in you call but the problem is getting involved in the first place. I notice you only had about 1500 in chips. Why not leave level 1 and 2 for premium hands as the later levels require flold equity which small stack don't have. gl
I don't think anyone would dispute that raising KQ on the button versus a limper, then c-betting most flops, is likely to be a profitable proposition. Limp-callers generally play fit or fold post-flop and being in position allows us to take advantage of that.
So why would we not want those chips? Are we really going to say to ourselves "I can see this clear opportunity to add to my stack but I'm not going to do it"?
Do we have a better chance of cashing when we have 2000 chips at the end of the first level or when we have 2100?
Taking advantage of obvious opportunities to build your stack is not wasting chips. It's utilising all the skills you've gained from years of playing the game at a time when those skills give you the greatest advantage. Why would you want to forego that advantage?
Just playing devil's advocate because I do what Larry does, but I imagine that will be the arguement to your point.
I guess, as always it's all opponent dependent, and we can do this against weak opponents which imo anyone that open limps here is, but against someone better who is playing a very tight range for first few levels, there probably is very little point getting involved with marginal hands like KQ when we're never likely to be in good shape.
That is the one answer which displays the flaw in the thinking of this "DYM strategy". It's a short term attitude in a game which must be played in the long term. In any one DYM having that extra 100 chips is going to be a negligible advantage... but DYM's famously come with low ROI of between 5% and 10% or so, if you're really good. So across thousands of games, even if those 100 chips mean an increase of just 0.5% on your ROI, you're gaining a big proportional increase to your profits.
If I offered you a starting stack of 2100 and your five opponents started with 1980, you'd think that was an advantage. It clearly is an advantage. Obviously the extra 100 chips is just an arbitrary number but the point stands that by playing to a restrictive set of rules for playing DYM's, you're passing up opportunities to increase your profit. Passing up +EV spots.
Playing these hands is only a risk if you think you're going to make a loss from the play in the long-term, i.e. that raising the button with KQs after a limp, then c-betting lots of flops is a -EV prospect. You and I, Lambert, know that it's not -EV to do that*. "Taking a risk" is not an issue. It's just plain and simple good play.
The only argument to fold these spots, just to try to fold to the bubble, is that we don't think we can outplay our opponents in the long-term: So if we think, even on the button, even against an open-limp, we're going to be outplayed in the long run. If we've been playing the game for more than a few months, that surely won't be the case.
Adapting to the situation and taking advantage of opportunities is always better than adhering religiously to strict rules.
*Unless we have particular reads that one of the blinds shoves every hand and forces us to make ICM folds, or something like that. In a vacuum, I think you must agree with my point.
if your not raising pre than your not playing poker
lolz @ fold pre
flop is an obvious call