top two, draw completes, oppo donk shoves - NL4

The_Don90

This is a villain I've not seen much of. Although he was playing 2 or 3 tables nothing stood him out from the "common rabble"

This is the first pot he's tangled with me in.

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
clubhammer	Small blind		£0.02	£0.02	£3.98
x	Big blind		£0.04	£0.06	£3.16
	Your hole cards	A Q
garner909	Fold
matsam	Fold
The_Don90	Raise		£0.16	£0.22	£5.48
loonytoons	Call		£0.16	£0.38	£7.44
clubhammer	Fold
x	Call		£0.12	£0.50	£3.04
Flop
		A 9 10
x	Check
The_Don90	Bet		£0.38	£0.88	£5.10
loonytoons	Fold
x	Call		£0.38	£1.26	£2.66
Turn
		Q
x	Check
The_Don90	Bet		£0.95	£2.21	£4.15
x	Call		£0.95	£3.16	£1.71
River
		3
x	All-in		£1.71	£4.87	£0.00
The_Don90

jugglegeek

Sucks to be you. This is alway a fold. Played the hand perfectly to get value from draws and Ax but if he had Ax I would have thought they are just going to x/c three streets. Therefore he either got there on the turn or more likely he has the flush.

IDONKCALLU

call

BorinLoner

Call... Take note. If he's going to be playing his draws this face up, that information is worth the price. If he's not, that information is worth the price. If this opponent's multi-tabling you can assume you'll see him again.

3:1 on your money? I'd call. You're probably not good 1/4 times so readless it's a fold, but you want reads so call.

I probably wouldn't bet so much on the turn because you're making it hard for him to call with a draw. What do I know, though? He called so it worked out.

jugglegeek

In Response to Re: top two, draw completes, oppo donk shoves - NL4:

Call... Take note. If he's going to be playing his draws this face up, that information is worth the price. If he's not, that information is worth the price. If this opponent's multi-tabling you can assume you'll see him again. 3:1 on your money? I'd call. You're probably not good 1/4 times so readless it's a fold, but you want reads so call. I probably wouldn't bet so much on the turn because you're making it hard for him to call with a draw. What do I know, though? He called so it worked out.
Posted by BorinLoner

So you're happy to lose another 42BBs to this player just to get "reads" on them even though you think there is a < 25% chance that top two is good here? How often do you see a new player take this line (call from blinds, x/c, x/c, shove river) without the nuts? If reads are so important, why not just wait until he takes this line against another player and let them pay half a stack? I think calling here is a mistake.

tomllew22

Hi Don,

Interestingly, it looks like the same situation from craigcu12's recent post so you might be interested to go check that out. In that instance, x value shoved the turn with a set. So all in all with that information, I think it might be a fold.

The fact that the replies have been divided shows how tough a decision it is though.

BorinLoner

In Response to Re: top two, draw completes, oppo donk shoves - NL4:

In Response to Re: top two, draw completes, oppo donk shoves - NL4 : So you're happy to lose another 42BBs to this player just to get "reads" on them even though you think there is a < 25% chance that top two is good here? How often do you see a new player take this line (call from blinds, x/c, x/c, shove river) without the nuts? If reads are so important, why not just wait until he takes this line against another player and let them pay half a stack? I think calling here is a mistake.
Posted by jugglegeek

No, you're right. I don't think we're going to be winning 25% of the time but I don't think we're going to be losing 100% of the time either.

I guess it's just how much of a dent you're happy to take for the information. If you're winning only 10%/15%/20% of the time, is the information worth the difference? I'd call because I don't think it's massively losing and I don't think that my opponent is necessarily going to play against other players the same way he'd play against me... and I'm a calling station.

As I say, it's a fold readless but it depends how much you value the read.

The_Don90

In Response to Re: top two, draw completes, oppo donk shoves - NL4:

Hi Don, Interestingly, it looks like the same situation from craigcu12's recent post so you might be interested to go check that out. In that instance, x value shoved the turn with a set. So all in all with that information, I think it might be a fold. The fact that the replies have been divided shows how tough a decision it is though.
Posted by tomllew22

Theres quite a big differance, mostly because craig has reads, where as i dont. 

For what its worth, given that we have a bankroll is i benificial to have a note on a guy who we know is playing more than one table. I think it is. So that 50BB we're saving could gain us alot more in the long run. As Borinloner says, most people who multitable inparticualr will play other multitablers different to those that dont. 

rancid

oppo still does this with hands you beat

percival09

cadburys

are

lame

lol

jugglegeek

So what did he have then Don? I know that you are too much of a station to have folded.

The_Don90

In Response to Re: top two, draw completes, oppo donk shoves - NL4:

So what did he have then Don? I know that you are too much of a station to have folded.
Posted by jugglegeek

Im not that uch of a station now, but i still like my hero's. he had 3rd pair.