What would you do...?

Sky_Poker

Hi

Some of you might have read that, at a recent WSOP event, a player who apparently thought he was outclassed in a heads-up battle tried to 'take the skill out of the game' by shoving every hand! Apparently it nearly worked but ultimately he lost.

Some people suggested it was a good tactic, others thought it might be considered disrespectful but what do you think of this tactic?

How would you react if if happened against you?

Thanks
Sky Poker

MAXALLY

Them all in sats have a lot to answer for.

Not H/U, but I have used that tactic before when a player has been over aggro every hand and esp on my BB. I shoved 5 times on the bounce after he min raised 5 times. He folded the 6th time.

Lambert180

Would have to be pretty shallow to attempt that, and if I was shallow, I'd probably be shoving ATC anyway

Wouldn't say it's disrespectful but it's probably not a very good strat if they're like 30+ BBs deep.

If I was on the receiving end (and we're not short), I'd just wait for something along the lines of 55+,ATs+,KTs+,QJs,ATo+,KJo+ and call.

DOHHHHHHH

In Response to Re: What would you do...?:

Would have to be pretty shallow to attempt that, and if I was shallow, I'd probably be shoving ATC anyway Wouldn't say it's disrespectful but it's probably not a very good strat if they're like 30+ BBs deep. If I was on the receiving end (and we're not short), I'd just wait for something along the lines of 55+,ATs+,KTs+,QJs,ATo+,KJo+ and call.
Posted by Lambert180

Much too wide imo if he's shoving literally every hand.

Lambert180

In Response to Re: What would you do...?:

In Response to Re: What would you do...? : Much too wide imo if he's shoving literally every hand.
Posted by DOHHHHHHH

    equity     win     tie           pots won     pots tied   
Hand 0:     66.879%      66.08%     00.80%       227313240544     2753171786.00   { 55+, ATs+, KTs+, QJs, ATo+, KJo+ }
Hand 1:     33.121%      32.32%     00.80%       111182289484     2753171786.00   { random }



I'll take 67% given the situation we're in... can't fold for AA

EDIT: FWIW, I'm talking about if we're like no more than 30-40xBB deep. Don't really want to gift some a walk/fold my BB more than 10-15 hands in a row that short.

In the weak player's position, I wouldn't even do that V Phil Ivey tbh. I'd want the experience of being able to say I played HU with Phil Ivey, not 'hey I got HU with him and just open shoved every hand til we took a flip'.

The_Don90

I don't see this as disrespectful at all. 

If the guys going to beat you normally, you have to adapt, he adapted. 

Smitalos

Please come sit next to me and try out this "new tactic".

I wouldn't consider it disrespectful at all. Please, be my guest, I've saved you a seat.

Lambert180

In Response to Re: What would you do...?:

Please come sit next to me and try out this "new tactic". I wouldn't consider it disrespectful at all. Please, be my guest, I've saved you a seat.
Posted by Smitalos

Can I hit 'n' run though when you call off my 82o shove with your KQ and I get there?

beaneh

how can it ever possibly be disrespectful to anyone but the person who has decided to shove.

they are dissing themselves.

Mohican

Surely you can only take it as a compliment if your oppo HU thinks the only way they can beat you is by letting the cards sort it out.

rancid

At what point do you know oppo is shoving ATC and adjust your calling range unless your told beforehand -_-
How many chips can you gain in the menatime untill oppo adjusts to even up the stacks to then tighten up again )

What are the stack sizes in relation to the blinds+antes

not enough information in op to give any opinion )


How easy is it though to play against someone shoving ATC......

fwiw i would want more than 66% verus ATC shove HU if stacks are even
If we have 3/1 chip advantage than 66% is fine

Lambert180

Obv depends on stack sizes but if the aint that deep, we just can't be that tight imo.

Like if we wanna have 70% equity which isn't much more than the 67% I posted above, that is 99+,ATs+,KQs,AJo+ which is only like 7% of hands. If stacks are say 30xBB v 30xBB, can we really afford to let them turn it around to 15xBB v 45xBB while we sit there waiting for a hand in the top 7%?

Interesting discussion.

Tikay10

In Response to Re: What would you do...?:

Please come sit next to me and try out this "new tactic". I wouldn't consider it disrespectful at all. Please, be my guest, I've saved you a seat.
Posted by Smitalos

BOOM.

Next case.

rancid

In Response to Re: What would you do...?:

Obv depends on stack sizes but if the aint that deep, we just can't be that tight imo. Like if we wanna have 70% equity which isn't much more than the 67% I posted above, that is 99+,ATs+,KQs,AJo+ which is only like 7% of hands. If stacks are say 30xBB v 30xBB, can we really afford to let them turn it around to 15xBB v 45xBB while we sit there waiting for a hand in the top 7%? Interesting discussion.
Posted by Lambert180

just depends on stacks, impossible to answer

just think the bigger chip advantage than we can wait for better equity

the more even than obviously we have to widen but the nearer we are to 70% the better

don't even like the thought of flipping for bracelet )
Probably the only ONE time you would tighten up

benc

Have been in this situation myself before, would never consider just jamming every hand though, from personal experience i just try to adapt and really mix it up if we are both still fairly deep , do things i wouldn't usually do i.e mix in limps vary my pre flop sizing alot, 3bet alot post flop so they can't just chip away anything to change the tide of the game.

Playing a person HU atm who plays loads of games most days who has sunk to the level of letting the timebar run all the way down for every hand, it is rather tilting so i guess its working, he is doing it to teach me a lesson for being "mouthy" lol he has kept it up for second game running wonder how long it will last.

calcalfold

Fed up of the respect and disrespect term being thrown about so often, utter nonsense.

If he was getting outplayed, then shipping or folding every hand is perfectly sensible.

david666

Obviously its entirely stack dependant, so its hard to give a definitive answer, but for certain i would play to the best of my ability and only begin shoving ATC when/if necessary.but I remember watching this years ago and its really interesting with the table dynamics

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gq3zZbj8TDE&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Trying this from my phone, hope it works

FlyingDagg

In Response to What would you do...?:

Hi Some of you might have read that, at a recent WSOP event, a player who apparently thought he was outclassed in a heads-up battle tried to 'take the skill out of the game' by shoving every hand! Apparently it nearly worked but ultimately he lost. Some people suggested it was a good tactic, others thought it might be considered disrespectful but what do you think of this tactic? How would you react if if happened against you? Thanks Sky Poker
Posted by Sky_Poker

If I'm heads up in a WSOP event  (ok I can dream ) I'm trying every trick in the book to win. It's certainly not disrespectful.