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poker tracker software - cheating or not???
just finished reading a SnG book and the author is saying to use additional software to enhance your game. So i have gone to the 2 sites the author has recommended and i was surprised at what i saw. The 2 pieces of software in question were poker tracker and poker office.
both give very detailed information!! is this a form of cheating or not? the other thing i did notice you can only use on certain poker sites? is this again because it is deemed as a form of cheating? i am now wondering wether other players are using this when they take a long time to make decisions, because they are scanning this type of software 
Your thoughts please
Comments
IM NOT UNLUCKY!
:P
Does cause a cause for concern, i can never trust the internet
Its only available for certain sites because the people who make it only cater for most of the big sites as it takes time and effort to program these things.
A tool like Poker Tracker only collates information that you have access to yourself.
It uses Hand History and Tournament Summary information that is (usually) recorded to your pc at game time or can be requested from the site that you are playing on.
It does not work for sites like SkyPoker because SkyPoker does not (currently) record/supply information in the required format. This is a major failure on the part of SkyPoker.
Poker Tracker provides statistical analysis of your (and your opponent's) play and helps you to improve your game.
It also allows you to track profit/loss by game type/level.
Another feature that I like about Poker Tracker is that it will "replay" hands for you so that you can follow the action and enjoy the time that you flopped the nuts and suckered someone else into putting you all-in!
It's a cheap tool and I would recommend it to anyone who is looking to improve their game - although obviously not applicable to SkyPoker currently.
Also, it probably takes away the essence of the game as ppl just look at stats and act accordingly.
Im not sure if this still goes on, but it definitely used to, and imo is definitely cheating. Datamining, basically load up 16 or whatever tables, dont sit at any, leave it running all day and all the info is being recorded into ur database.
It's essential in the modern day game to be able to elctronically track all this info. People hark back to live games where things like this are not available and consider it the computer doing the work for you but realistically you will play up to 10 tables at once online cash, i don't remember doing that when i only played live?
For me the site will be much improved once it fits with this type of software and i may consider playing the majority of my poker here
I think they are bad for the game, not cheating, you couldn't use one in a casino and I think poker is better when you have to manually adjust to the players you play regular.
Man goes to his lawyer and says, "I have a friend who thinks his wife's playing around , blah blah blah blah,"
) ... glk benny
So you get where I'm coming from here?
I have a friend who has tried 'Poker tracker" he has also used a 'Bot' (robot) and there are many other 'gizmo's I'm sure that are supposed to help your online game..
Some players need help, because they feel they need all the help they can get.. 'big boys like big boys toys'
My friend, used the 'Bot' for 2 days and 'poker tracker' and pokermon for 1 day, then said this ,
"When it comes to making decisions at the Game of Poker it's your own ability to be able to make crucial decisions, games are won and lost on those decisions, it's your confidence in your own game that will win in the end.
The over riding factor in all games of poker are, "your frame of mind" when you sit to the table. This also applies in live events but in my opinion more so when online...
If you want to improve your game , then get out to live events and use what you lean there when your at home on the computer, you'd be surprised how much that can improve your online game ..
That all said, if the 'gizmo's helps your game good luck, for me and my friend there a waste of time and also when I'm in a live event, nothing will help me then except 'The Poker Fairy" sitting on my shoulder ?? Now if only I could have one of those every time I play
It's very much a personal choice but there are many advantages to using analytical tools like this.
One simple example would be that you can see at a glance how much money you win/lose from each position at the table.
You might find, for example, that you win $1000 on the button but lose $750 in the blinds over a sample of 100,000 hands. This would then help you to evaluate your play and might make you realise that you are making too many loose calls in the blinds.
This is information that you would not be able to recognise so clearly without the aid of an analytical tool.
As already stated, you can gain experience from just playing the game (live and online) but tools like this generally help you to progress more quickly. Some people like to take advantage of this, others prefer to progress by "intuition" acquired over many years of play. Neither approach is wrong but, personally, I like to use the tools that are available.
Anyway, at present it's a moot point if you play the majority of your poker on SkyPoker because the information necessary for tools like this is not available in the required format.
I agree with you post theres nothing wrong with using tools like this to see where your game is weak Are you to aggresive UTG or do you 3bet enough preflop? Playing in the very micro stake like i do theres not much need for it but im sure in time when i get better and my BR allows me ill move up levels. Ill need such a program as the play get tougher the regs get togher and if it gives you an edge over your opponents whynot use it to increase your porfit.
Ive been looking at the 2p2 forum alot at the begginers tools and how to improve my game and its a must over there when play nl25 up. As in plauin nl5 and nl10 its not somthing ill use just yet.
I use them when playing other sites and they are invaluable for multi-tabling. Some poker players say that just by one tabling it allows you to get a read on a villains playing style. This may be true, however when I am 12 tabling on other sites I can get far more accurate reads from my HUD than I could ever get by just 1tabling and watching.
If you configure the HUD (heads up display) to show the critical data that is.
I can tell you that a lot of people on the "bigger" sites that play this game for a living find them invaluble.
Not just because of the HUD giving you info on the players your playing against but because they will expose the weakness in your own game allowing you to quickly plug leaks. The kind of info Merenovice mentions to be honest is not something your going to spot in your own game without these kind of programs pointing them out. Do you know how much you have won from the BB? Do you know how much you lose raising from the SB to steal? how often you C bet flops? i can tell you i don't......... and thats because this site isn't compatible with one.
I'm sure it will be and i'm sure a lot of people will take up using them. It may give you an edge or it may just be a way for you to keep more accurate records but i sure wouldn't write them off without trying them out for yourself
A little off-topic this, my apologies to the OP, but you featured heavily during last Saturday's Master Cash.
And I thought you played immaculately, Passing when it was optimal so to do, & maximising the value of your hands. In a 3 hour Show, you never seemed to make a single mistake.
Where have YOU been hiding?
+1
I was loosing basically all my profits in the big blind by making loose calls as i was always out of position and was facing the pfr.
I only noticed this by putting all my hands in a leak buster which finds all your leaks (Holdem manager).
This software is a must if you play cash imo, In tournaments its hard to get a good amount of hands on any player and hands are mostly played preflop so i dont use a hud for them.
Does anyone know if you will ever be able to use hm on sky?
The only downside if hm becomes available, it will be hard for sky to stop people datamining hands on players they have not played.
any ideas if it will ever be available here?
on the big american sites at a decent level 70% of opponents will be using this software (holdem manager is my choice very good value imo)
people who tried it for one session are missing a point its a tool to be used with a minimum of 1000 hands, it also gives you a good idea about variance and dispels the myth that you are always unlucky