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The Show Format
It's been a couple of months now since the live show reverted to covering the length of both the Primo and the Turbo Open. There are a few little things I'd like to start a discussion about.
Tonight On Sky Poker
Since the revamp, this hour on both Sunday and Tuesday has become dedicated to the final table of the previous live show's Main Event. Of course we can all understand the logic of that, however I do find it to be less than gripping television. Yes it's great to see the conclusion of the tournament but, particularly true of the Sky Sports Bounty Hunter, stacks on the final table tend to be very shallow and the play isn't usually all that interesting. For the most part, it's all-in or fold pre-flop and you can see what's coming as soon as the hand is brought up. I don't mind so much that the Primo is featured on a Tuesday because it tends to be deeper and the play more interesting. Of course, it's also the 'main' Main Event of the week, so it makes sense to see it through to it's conclusion.
This hour used to feature master cash hands, Main Event satellite play or action from a specially arranged Timed Tournament. This was, in my opinion, generally far more interesting and less predictable than a short stacked final table. I'm sure the Bounty Hunter's winners would like to see their victories broadcast but I haven't found it to be especially enthralling viewing.
The Poker Clinic, Analyse My Play, Ask The Experts, Sky Poker School
The current format of following tournaments from start to finish on both Tuesday and Sunday has led to both 'Ask The Experts' and 'Sky Poker School' being scrapped. 'The Poker Clinic' and 'Analyse My Play' have both, on occasion, been moved aside to allow 'Charlotte Jackson On Sky Poker' and the various sports betting preview shows to take place.
I'm a big fan of these four shows because they have (or had) a coherent structure to them. Some involve audience participation and others simply explore a particular topic. In all cases, the hands selected and shown are interesting and allow for sophisticated commentary. During these shows you don't see hands that fit the "All-in, call; flop, turn and river" scenario that feature so heavily during Turbo Tuesday and Sky Sports Bounty Hunter coverage - Themes are developed and explored in more depth rather than presenter and analyst simply moving from one tournament hand to the next, changing tack each time.
I feel it's a mistake to marginalise these shows to quite the extent they have been. I will grant you that the 'Poker School' was running short of interesting topics after so long and, some weeks, having both 'Ask The Experts' and 'The Poker Clinic' resulted in a shortage of hand requests for both hours. However, in their absence the shows are becoming a bit samey and unremarkable. Only Thursday nights contain any shows specifically for audience participation or with coherent themes and, as I said, some weeks even those shows don't take place.
Analyse My Play
To my mind, 'Analyse My Play' should be a staple of the show schedule and should feature the show presenter or analyst's (preferably hilarious) play every single week. Failing that, analysing the play of a single player in a tournament running that night. Following multiple new players, as has happened recently, simply resembles another instalment of 'Now On Sky Poker'. An alternative suggestion might be that the play of a Main Event final tablist from the previous week could be featured, to show how they came through critical hands at various stages of the tournament. I believe this was the format of one of the old, old shows "back in the day".
Master Cash
Nowadays there is only one dedicated hour a week of 'Master Cash', as well as 'Tonight On Sky Poker' on Thursday nights. To keep it short and sweet, I'm not sure that's quite the right amount. (I'm not including 'Top Of The Pots' in this definition because it's not open to players to play at that moment. It also never leaves any doubt about how the hand will end - all the money is going in - and that limits the interest. It's car crash television, which is fine, but it frequently isn't that interesting.)
I'm not going to suggest that I'd like to see radical changes to Sky Poker's schedule, just minor tweaks. If Turbo Tuesday was only covered for two hours instead of the current three, between 10pm and midnight, hands could be shown a little more selectively. The majority of the interesting hands will happen in the early and mid stages when stacks are relatively deep, so these could be shown in the later two hours rather than the last hour or two being almost exclusively shove-or-fold poker.
This would free up an hour between 8pm and 9pm for a return of 'Ask The Experts', 'Poker School' or something else. I think this is a more appropriate hour to be sacrificed for the Sports Betting shows, rather than knocking out 'The Poker Clinic' or 'Analyse My Play' on a Thursday, or one of these shows could be switched to this hour on a Tuesday if the sports betting show must be on a Thursday.
I'd also like to see the 'Tonight On Sky Poker' hour on Sundays being used for something other than final table coverage. Whether that's master cash hands, timed tournament action or satellite play or possibly all three on a rotating basis... just something a bit different to more action from another MTT.
Of course these are just my opinions and I'd like to hear others. I know that a lot of people are happy with the return to following a single MTT all night, I just think there's a little bit too much MTT action now and a tad more variety is needed. What does everybody think?
This is most definitely NOT intended to be a thread discussing the merits of the sports betting shows (which, it has been made clear, are not going away) or the qualities of particular presenters. There has been plenty of discussion on both and you can find threads for those elsewhere.
Tonight On Sky Poker
Since the revamp, this hour on both Sunday and Tuesday has become dedicated to the final table of the previous live show's Main Event. Of course we can all understand the logic of that, however I do find it to be less than gripping television. Yes it's great to see the conclusion of the tournament but, particularly true of the Sky Sports Bounty Hunter, stacks on the final table tend to be very shallow and the play isn't usually all that interesting. For the most part, it's all-in or fold pre-flop and you can see what's coming as soon as the hand is brought up. I don't mind so much that the Primo is featured on a Tuesday because it tends to be deeper and the play more interesting. Of course, it's also the 'main' Main Event of the week, so it makes sense to see it through to it's conclusion.
This hour used to feature master cash hands, Main Event satellite play or action from a specially arranged Timed Tournament. This was, in my opinion, generally far more interesting and less predictable than a short stacked final table. I'm sure the Bounty Hunter's winners would like to see their victories broadcast but I haven't found it to be especially enthralling viewing.
The Poker Clinic, Analyse My Play, Ask The Experts, Sky Poker School
The current format of following tournaments from start to finish on both Tuesday and Sunday has led to both 'Ask The Experts' and 'Sky Poker School' being scrapped. 'The Poker Clinic' and 'Analyse My Play' have both, on occasion, been moved aside to allow 'Charlotte Jackson On Sky Poker' and the various sports betting preview shows to take place.
I'm a big fan of these four shows because they have (or had) a coherent structure to them. Some involve audience participation and others simply explore a particular topic. In all cases, the hands selected and shown are interesting and allow for sophisticated commentary. During these shows you don't see hands that fit the "All-in, call; flop, turn and river" scenario that feature so heavily during Turbo Tuesday and Sky Sports Bounty Hunter coverage - Themes are developed and explored in more depth rather than presenter and analyst simply moving from one tournament hand to the next, changing tack each time.
I feel it's a mistake to marginalise these shows to quite the extent they have been. I will grant you that the 'Poker School' was running short of interesting topics after so long and, some weeks, having both 'Ask The Experts' and 'The Poker Clinic' resulted in a shortage of hand requests for both hours. However, in their absence the shows are becoming a bit samey and unremarkable. Only Thursday nights contain any shows specifically for audience participation or with coherent themes and, as I said, some weeks even those shows don't take place.
Analyse My Play
To my mind, 'Analyse My Play' should be a staple of the show schedule and should feature the show presenter or analyst's (preferably hilarious) play every single week. Failing that, analysing the play of a single player in a tournament running that night. Following multiple new players, as has happened recently, simply resembles another instalment of 'Now On Sky Poker'. An alternative suggestion might be that the play of a Main Event final tablist from the previous week could be featured, to show how they came through critical hands at various stages of the tournament. I believe this was the format of one of the old, old shows "back in the day".
Master Cash
Nowadays there is only one dedicated hour a week of 'Master Cash', as well as 'Tonight On Sky Poker' on Thursday nights. To keep it short and sweet, I'm not sure that's quite the right amount. (I'm not including 'Top Of The Pots' in this definition because it's not open to players to play at that moment. It also never leaves any doubt about how the hand will end - all the money is going in - and that limits the interest. It's car crash television, which is fine, but it frequently isn't that interesting.)
I'm not going to suggest that I'd like to see radical changes to Sky Poker's schedule, just minor tweaks. If Turbo Tuesday was only covered for two hours instead of the current three, between 10pm and midnight, hands could be shown a little more selectively. The majority of the interesting hands will happen in the early and mid stages when stacks are relatively deep, so these could be shown in the later two hours rather than the last hour or two being almost exclusively shove-or-fold poker.
This would free up an hour between 8pm and 9pm for a return of 'Ask The Experts', 'Poker School' or something else. I think this is a more appropriate hour to be sacrificed for the Sports Betting shows, rather than knocking out 'The Poker Clinic' or 'Analyse My Play' on a Thursday, or one of these shows could be switched to this hour on a Tuesday if the sports betting show must be on a Thursday.
I'd also like to see the 'Tonight On Sky Poker' hour on Sundays being used for something other than final table coverage. Whether that's master cash hands, timed tournament action or satellite play or possibly all three on a rotating basis... just something a bit different to more action from another MTT.
Of course these are just my opinions and I'd like to hear others. I know that a lot of people are happy with the return to following a single MTT all night, I just think there's a little bit too much MTT action now and a tad more variety is needed. What does everybody think?
This is most definitely NOT intended to be a thread discussing the merits of the sports betting shows (which, it has been made clear, are not going away) or the qualities of particular presenters. There has been plenty of discussion on both and you can find threads for those elsewhere.
Comments
My opinion on the show is maybe not the best, because i don't watch it that much, and if it's on a lot of the time its background music when i'm playing poker.
Following a tournie, just going over hand over hand to me isn't that exciting.
Stuff like TOTP is interesting. Same with The Poker Clinic, Analyse My Play, Ask The Experts and Analyse My Play. those types of things. Definatly stuff where it is interactive.
The best shows i have seen have been ones with people like sam razavi on them.
Another thing i noticed was things tend to be overegged, like "the sky cash game". The whole "pros play celebs" didn't work that well imo. If it was to be shown on sky poker, would it bring in any new customers (which prob was the whole reason) I dont know. But as a poker programme, it wasn't the best, the highlight was the banter from sam razavi.
I suppose the whole point in the channell is to bring in new players etc. If that works, thats the main thing they will be looking at i suppose. They could make the programme more dyanmic.
In saying all that, i'm sure it must be hard filling 5 hours of poker and overall for what it is the show is decent enough.
Good thread Borin, if Sky did want to tweak the show, this would be the best place for them to get responses. Tho, of course, they might not want too! Tho, i'm sure they are always looking at ways to change things up.
Maybe they could use this thread for ideas, best one getting some sort of tournie entry or whatever the case may be.
BUT.
I just wonder how these show hands are selected. The 'behind the scenes' guys can't have a lot of time to dig out 'interesting' hands and so the indicators are either 'how did they get that huge stack' or 'how did x just bust', which will ultimately lead to a couple of hours of watching coolers. Same problem with screening hands people might request.
The other age-old issue is you'll never learn how the table has been playing watching one hand in isolation. Something odd might happen, and all the analyst can say is 'well, the guy must have had a read on his opponent'. This is the huge dilemma with screening poker. It's either too action-orientated and lacks skill, or it's fold fold fold and dead boring, but not showing enough means you miss the context of the action.
Personally...
I don't get much out of Top of The Pots, the analysis essentially goes down the line of "well, what turn card do we need to get all the money in". I can see that it's exciting for people, I just don't see that it's technical. For that, I prefer watching Mastercash hands or following a new player. But again, we'll still suffer from the context issue above.
In conclusion, I have no idea.
Hi Borinloner - thanks for taking the time to write this out.
Useful feedback.
Thanks
Sky Poker
Another tremendous Post, totally constructive & well-argued, very thought provoking, well done Mr Borin.
Out of interest......would it not be possible to make use of the "Red Button" an interactive menu for all things pre-recorded like "The Poker School" "Lessons for Beginners" The Clinic" Repeats of recorded programs and more etc
I get the feeling I've had my tummy rubbed by the Sky team, though. lol