Fold or shove?

l_P

This is my first post on the community and I am pretty much a new player. This hand was taken from the turbo on Tuesday 18th June.

BB was a huge stack at this point in the tournament and they were playing fairly loose. I was thinking that they had a bare heart on the flop and I wasn't scared of AK because of the flat call pre. Intentions were to reach showdown for as cheap as possible.

Question is should i have folded/shoved the flop after the raise; if not should i have done likewise on the turn?

Any advice would be appreciated 

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
jamz407	Small blind		60.00	60.00	1094.00
jan3333	Big blind		120.00	180.00	9995.00
	Your hole cards	A J
darsum333	Fold
l_P	Raise		360.00	540.00	3020.00
mrspangle	Fold
kezzzz	Fold
jamz407	Fold
jan3333	Call		240.00	780.00	9755.00
Flop
		3 K A
jan3333	Check
l_P	Bet		390.00	1170.00	2630.00
jan3333	Raise		780.00	1950.00	8975.00
l_P	Call		390.00	2340.00	2240.00
Turn
		3
jan3333	Bet		960.00	3300.00	8015.00
l_P	Call		960.00	4260.00	1280.00
River
		8
jan3333	All-in		8015.00	12275.00	0.00
l_P	All-in		1280.00	13555.00	0.00
jan3333	Unmatched bet		6735.00	6820.00	6735.00
jan3333	Show	Q 9
l_P	Show	A J
jan3333	Win	Flush to the Ace	6820.00		13555.00

 

unknown_username

Hi

Well if its a bare heart you were scared of then a shove certainly does not give him the odds to call but if he's loose and has a K too so may feel he's ahead then you are getting into a dangerous area. The fact thats its a Turbo may push you in this direction. Personally i may call the click back and consider the situation on the turn after all, what will he call a 3xbb raise from HJ with? You are still behind AQ. You still have about 20 BB if you fold the turn and find a better spot imo.

Jac35

In Response to Re: Fold or shove?:

Hi Well if its a bare heart you were scared of then a shove certainly does not give him the odds to call but if he's loose and has a K too so may feel he's ahead then you are getting into a dangerous area. The fact thats its a Turbo may push you in this direction. Personally i may call the click back and consider the situation on the turn after all, what will he call a 3xbb raise from HJ with? You are still behind AQ. You still have about 20 BB if you fold the turn and find a better spot imo.
Posted by profman15

I probably do my stack here.

Personally I would be raising less pre. The 3x means its highly likely after inflating the pot pre that you're going to struggle to get away from this after hitting.

I'm going to shove the turn rather than call.

You're not losing to AQ by the way. King plays Prof

hhyftrftdr

Tread very carefully if you get minraised on Sky!

DeucesLive

Raise pre could be a tad smaller, but it's not too bad.

The flop check/minraise is really hideously strong normally- but it could also be a bare Q or J of hearts. You could shove on him, but realistically then you're only getting called if he's as strong as KQ with the nut flush draw or better- and your odds are pretty slim. I'd take the call in position.

On the turn when he leads out at you, I probably shove at this point. I think this is the real shove/fold moment, and the way the hand has played it's fairly likely he has the heart draw with a pair a lot of the time. A fold is acceptable, you have a fairly playable stack still, but I think very often you're good in this position- and the 3's just confirmed you're ahead of AQ (although if he's aggro like you said, I think you can rule out AK and AQ at this point).

On the river, if another heart comes down you have to fold, and if a heart doesn't come and he shuts down- you miss out on value. But as it played out I don't think you have any option but to make the call here. The jam is a desperate busted flush a lot of the time.

tl;dr, I like everything apart from the turn.

percival09

Fold otf

failing that fold turn

failing all these things quit poker

Smitalos

In Response to Re: Fold or shove?:

Fold otf failing that fold turn failing all these things quit poker
Posted by percival09

POTY.

offshoot

Someone minraising a monotone flop does not say "bare heart" to me tbh.

IDONKCALLU

easy fold on the flop  

min raise is the nuts ya beating nothing 

when u call the flop whats ya plan because the opponent is gonna barrel turn n river 

rancid

turn is shove or fold

flop is meh, no one is folding so take no notice of them

i would argue that min raise on this monatone flop could be anything

but it's sky and no one would ever think about not giving odds to a one heart hand lol 395/1950

fold to the terribad min raise is kinda meh fold.....doubt any of you fold in game...

cmon be serious LETS ALL DO THE MIN RAISE - risk reward..................loving it

IDONKCALLU

rancid Posts: 5134 First: 30/5/2010 Last: 21/6/2013

turn is shove or fold flop is meh, no one is folding so take no notice of them i would argue that min raise on this monatone flop could be anything  but it's sky and no one would ever think about not giving odds to a one heart hand lol 395/1950  fold to the terribad min raise is kinda meh fold.....doubt any of you fold in game... cmon be serious LETS ALL DO THE MIN RAISE - risk reward..................loving it im 100 per cent folding on flop if i get raised here look at the stacks u cant call of 390 of ya stack theres nowt ya beating   a random heart aint doing this they would just set him in on flop

Jac35

I think it's a pity that the results were posted from the start on this one.

We're all geniuses when we see all the cards

percival09

Lol I am snap folding otf

We're unbelievably crushed and there is like 0 good turn cards

pretty standard spot Idk why you guys are struggling

Jac35

In Response to Re: Fold or shove?:

Lol I am snap folding otf We're unbelievably crushed and there is like 0 good turn cards
Posted by percival09

Seriously?

Is that due to it probably being low stakes! Or at all stakes?

I totally get your point. But are we not hugely exploitable if we are snap folding?

percival09

In Response to Re: Fold or shove?:

In Response to Re: Fold or shove? : Seriously? Is that due to it probably being low stakes! Or at all stakes? I totally get your point. But are we not hugely exploitable if we are snap folding?
Posted by Jac35

Low stakes = fish = only raise with the nuts = b/f without the nuts

We're folding to a turn bet like 100% of the time (should be lol) - villains range otf is like flush, and flush, and possibly a set. It's only a min raise to call but that's still a fairly big % of our stack and it's just pretty spewy imo

Jac35

In Response to Re: Fold or shove?:

In Response to Re: Fold or shove? : Low stakes = fish = only raise with the nuts = b/f without the nuts We're folding to a turn bet like 100% of the time (should be lol) - villains range otf is like flush, and flush, and possibly a set. It's only a min raise to call but that's still a fairly big % of our stack and it's just pretty spewy imo
Posted by percival09

Yeah, ok.

I've had my mind changed

Agree low stakes min generally is nuts.

We coud possibly replace "fish" with less experienced player?

Voted for you in TOTP by the way

percival09

In Response to Re: Fold or shove?:

In Response to Re: Fold or shove? : Yeah, ok. Just been playing advocate. Agree low stakes min generally is nuts. We coud possibly replace "fish" with less experienced player? Voted for you in TOTP by the way
Posted by Jac35

Aww, such a gent ;-) 

Fish is just an easy way to quickly describe somebobdys play accurately. Not all fish are inexperienced. Look @ Lambert! 

Jac35

In Response to Re: Fold or shove?:

In Response to Re: Fold or shove? : Aww, such a gent ;-)  Fish is just an easy way to quickly describe somebobdys play accurately. Not all fish are inexperienced. Look @ Lambert! 
Posted by percival09

To quote Roguecell "lol Wp"

Liking "sombobdys"

rancid

lot's of nit folding going on )

turbo - kiss my balls - I ain't folding

GELDY

player dependent surely

and unfortunately in this case it is the loose aggro bb who has the hand - the one villain you are most likely not going to believe