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Just Fold Queens Pre in this Spot?

LARSON7LARSON7
edited June 2013 in The Poker Clinic

Can we just fold this pre? The limp raise looks like Aces or Kings.

Is this the difference between a good player and an ok player? I was confident i was beat preflop, and still called, ok i can still hit my queen, but i think this is a bad call and quite an easy fold?

Checking the Flop /Turn does show I think i'm beat here.

The reason i check the turn i still think he is slow playing kings aces (on the flop)

When he bets turn, i sigh call, think this is a really bad call given my read. (i'm never reraising here given read etc etc). But then i talk to myself into, yeah i've still got queens. On the river the Ace saves me, any bet here and i'm away.

Reado89 Small blind  15.00 15.00 1680.00
LARSON7 Big blind  30.00 45.00 2422.50
  Your hole cards
  • Q
  • Q
     
x Call  30.00 75.00 3427.50
dianne1959 Fold     
steveyb Fold     
walter1959 Fold     
Reado89 Fold     
LARSON7 Raise  120.00 195.00 2302.50
xRaise  240.00 435.00 3187.50
LARSON7 Call  120.00 555.00 2182.50
Flop
   
  • 10
  • 5
  • J
     
LARSON7 Check     
x Check     
Turn
   
  • 8
     
LARSON7 Check     
xBet  690.00 1245.00 2497.50
LARSON7 Call  690.00 1935.00 1492.50
River
   
  • A
     
LARSON7 Check     
x Check     
LARSON7 Show
  • Q
  • Q
   
xShow
  • K
  • K
   
xWin Pair of Kings
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Comments

  • Lambert180Lambert180
    edited June 2013
    No way!!!

    Even if you know 100% for a fact he only has KK and AA you are calling 120 to win 435 and have another 2k+ behind, so if you wanna purely setmine with Qs, then you can do correctly. I wouldn't be pure set mining, but if that's what you wanna do you can, but you can't fold pre.
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  • craigcu12craigcu12
    edited June 2013
    TBH i can see your point myself because for him to limp in only to then reraise is shouting AA or KK any day, but as lambert has said i too would still call. what i feel would help but was if on the flop maybe doing a donk bet 150 because this is the best non Q high flop you could ask for really because  if he did a raise then it's certain that you are behind to everything weather it is set 1010 jj or better pair AA KK. as for him having QQ well that is just too unlikely.
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  • SmitalosSmitalos
    edited June 2013
    I play it the exact same way.

    Sometimes putting the cape on to fold the turn. But that would be crayyyyyyyyyyyzeeeeeeeeeeeee.


    nh
    wp
    onto the next one.
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  • gazza127gazza127
    edited June 2013
    Hes done a lambert and checked kings on the flop...

    mental.
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  • hhyftrftdrhhyftrftdr
    edited June 2013
    If you put him on a slow played Aces or KK then you should fold the turn. Convincing yourself to call because you have QQ makes no sense as of the 2 hands you believe the villain could hold both crush QQ.

    You should never fold pre however.
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  • percival09percival09
    edited June 2013
    Turn sucks a lot. I'm sigh calling prob but I don't even mind a fold. Don't tell anybody. 
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  • The_Don90The_Don90
    edited June 2013
    In Response to Re: Just Fold Queens Pre in this Spot?:
    If you put him on a slow played Aces or KK then you should fold the turn. Convincing yourself to call because you have QQ makes no sense as of the 2 hands you believe the villain could hold both crush QQ. You should never fold pre however.
    Posted by hhyftrftdr
    because he's checked the flop i think folding the turn is a mistake v some villians, expessially readless. I dont love it but i think hero lost the min here. Well played Larsson. 
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  • Lambert180Lambert180
    edited June 2013
    In Response to Re: Just Fold Queens Pre in this Spot?:
    Hes done a lambert and checked kings on the flop... mental.
    Posted by gazza127
    lol pretty different dynamics but yeh

    Don't like the donk bet idea at all Craig, why are we doing it, betting for information? We should be betting cos we'll get worse hands to call or better hands to fold, and neither is the case here.
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  • rancidrancid
    edited June 2013
    limp m/r UTG - checks flop - overbet pot on turn

    fold tun is good, how can oppo ever be weak with this line

    calling turn means your going to stack off on blank river given SPR

    calling turn is a mistake
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  • hhyftrftdrhhyftrftdr
    edited June 2013
    In Response to Re: Just Fold Queens Pre in this Spot?:
    limp m/r UTG - checks flop - overbet pot on turn fold tun is good, how can oppo ever be weak with this line calling turn means your going to stack off on blank river given SPR calling turn is a mistake
    Posted by rancid
    Sums it up quite nicely.
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  • craigcu12craigcu12
    edited June 2013
    In Response to Re: Just Fold Queens Pre in this Spot?:
    In Response to Re: Just Fold Queens Pre in this Spot? : lol pretty different dynamics but yeh Don't like the donk bet idea at all Craig, why are we doing it, betting for information? We should be betting cos we'll get worse hands to call or better hands to fold, and neither is the case here.
    Posted by Lambert180
    it's just with this board having both J and 10 it might tempt KK to fold thinking it is a set we betting with if he decided to reraise the QQ can itself fold knowing that he is most likely holding AA KK JJ or 1010 if he just call well that's probably AK most times.

    if it was 9 high or just a J or 10 but not both then i myself would check.
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  • Lambert180Lambert180
    edited June 2013
    Don't think KK is gonna fold to 1 donk bet here and I don't understand why we'd want to turn out hand into a bluff.

    And if I had JJ or TT on this board in this scenario and someone donk bet into me I would pretty much 100% of the time just call to disguise the strength of my hand and cos I don't wanna fold out junk and it's still easy to get stacks in without raising, I'd also flat with KK/AA. I think most would do the same.

    If we check, we let him c-bet with all the hands that we beat (and we can call).
    When we donkbet we let him fold pretty much every hand we beat (why would we wanna do that)?
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  • craigcu12craigcu12
    edited June 2013
    In Response to Re: Just Fold Queens Pre in this Spot?:
    Don't think KK is gonna fold to 1 donk bet here and I don't understand why we'd want to turn out hand into a bluff. And if I had JJ or TT on this board in this scenario and someone donk bet into me I would pretty much 100% of the time just call to disguise the strength of my hand and cos I don't wanna fold out junk and it's still easy to get stacks in without raising, I'd also flat with KK/AA. I think most would do the same. If we check, we let him c-bet with all the hands that we beat (and we can call). When we donkbet we let him fold pretty much every hand we beat (why would we wanna do that)?
    Posted by Lambert180
    maybe my thought comes from nl4 because on them cash tables it is very hard to get any value without donk bets.
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  • GELDYGELDY
    edited June 2013
    i can't call pre oop - would rather raise or fold depending on notes
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