would a check raise have give me more chance to bluff

craigcu12

It's the CO that limped btw. This is a fine hand to iso w/ imo, we do wanna avoid playing too many hands from the blinds but don't think we can just be super nitty in the blinds either.

Yet again, the same old thing everyone points out in ALL your hands... you have the betting lead and you give it up. What is the point of raising a limper if we're not gonna c-bet an a-high board?

Bet the flop. The whole hand makes no sense

You've decided to give up the lead when someone has just limp/called and we've flopped a FD, then you decide to just donk turn and river both with really small bets that are never gonna make any sort of showdown hand fold.

craigcu12

.

craigcu12	Small blind		£0.05	£0.05	£9.65
kidcurry	Big blind		£0.10	£0.15	£8.91
	Your hole cards	Q 9
clifordred	Call		£0.10	£0.25	£7.90
robbie1992	Fold
craigcu12	Raise		£0.25	£0.50	£9.40
kidcurry	Fold
clifordred	Call		£0.20	£0.70	£7.70
Flop
		A 5 K
craigcu12	Check
clifordred	Bet		£0.20	£0.90	£7.50
craigcu12	Call		£0.20	£1.10	£9.20
Turn
		K
craigcu12	Bet		£0.40	£1.50	£8.80
clifordred	Call		£0.40	£1.90	£7.10

LARSON7

It's hard to play flush draws for me.

If you call some will say you are being 2 passive, while people will say just reraise flop to build value for when we hit our flush.

Maybe bet the flop, continue with the pre lead aggression, you can win there and then move onto the next hand.

On the turn i would just check given our line on the flop. You bet 40p into over a pound. Less than half pot.

With this bet opponent is lnever going to believe you have the king.

River changes nothing, i would just check give up. If you had took a stronger line throughout, perhaps the bluff would get through on the river.

DeucesLive

What's more important to note is rather than looking at the river play you need to look at the whole hand because I think it's all butchered. Firstly preflop- Q9s is not strong enough to play out of the weakest position. Just flat it. On the flop it's hardly ideal having an A and K there, but you raised pre- they're in your range. And you have the NFD to boot. You need to be betting out there as the preflop aggressor, or at least check raising instead of check calling. 

 

On the turn and river a real sized bet would have given you more chance- you bet 40p into 1.10, then 90 into 1.90. Both times less than a half pot bet. If you've decided to represent the king here, I'd be looking to make the real move on the turn (bearing in mind you have the flush outs still) by making it around 70/80p. Now the pot is more like 2.60 going into the river, and you can make a bet of around 1.80/2.00, which now gives him a lot more to think about.

With bigger bets you can definitely represent a KQ/KJ style hand here. But you have to stop and think- is my player good enough to see that, and fold an A? At these stakes, quite often the answer is no.

hhyftrftdr

Pretty much the dream flop for you, whilst still holding just Q high. This is a perfect flop to c-bet with huge equity, whilst also repping the big cards.

Get barrelling. You'll get villain off it by the river

craigcu12

i must of had something happening on another table at the time this hand was played and caused me to forget that i was the original aggressor preflop. over the last couple of months c bets have been getting more regular and this board i would have been doing a cbet for sure.
i will just delete that first post because it was not played right at all.

craigcu12

when i miss flops i will still go for a cbet most times

clarkie123	Small blind		£0.02	£0.02	£3.60
garybwfc24	Big blind		£0.04	£0.06	£4.93
	Your hole cards	K Q
trueblue19	Call		£0.04	£0.10	£5.88
craigcu12	Raise		£0.20	£0.30	£7.61
DOHHHHHHH	Fold
clarkie123	Fold
garybwfc24	Call		£0.16	£0.46	£4.77
trueblue19	Call		£0.16	£0.62	£5.72
Flop
		J 10 7
garybwfc24	Check
trueblue19	Check
craigcu12	Bet		£0.31	£0.93	£7.30

the hand you are probably thinking of are when i think too much about hoping they won't fold and cause myself to get too soft

Rodders269	Small blind		£0.02	£0.02	£4.68
craigcu12	Big blind		£0.04	£0.06	£5.73
	Your hole cards	A K
Jim_RM	Raise		£0.08	£0.14	£3.17
Grimp	Fold
manjoe81	Call		£0.08	£0.22	£3.44
Rodders269	Fold
craigcu12	Raise		£0.16	£0.38	£5.57
Jim_RM	Fold
manjoe81	Call		£0.12	£0.50	£3.32
Flop
		J Q 10
craigcu12	Check
manjoe81	Bet		£0.20	£0.70	£3.12
craigcu12	Call		£0.20	£0.90	£5.37

est1967

In Response to Re: would a check raise have give me more chance to bluff:

What's more important to note is rather than looking at the river play you need to look at the whole hand because I think it's all butchered. Firstly preflop- Q9s is not strong enough to play out of the weakest position. Just flat it. On the flop it's hardly ideal having an A and K there, but you raised pre- they're in your range. And you have the NFD to boot. You need to be betting out there as the preflop aggressor, or at least check raising instead of check calling.    On the turn and river a real sized bet would have given you more chance- you bet 40p into 1.10, then 90 into 1.90. Both times less than a half pot bet. If you've decided to represent the king here, I'd be looking to make the real move on the turn (bearing in mind you have the flush outs still) by making it around 70/80p. Now the pot is more like 2.60 going into the river, and you can make a bet of around 1.80/2.00, which now gives him a lot more to think about. With bigger bets you can definitely represent a KQ/KJ style hand here. But you have to stop and think- is my player good enough to see that, and fold an A? At these stakes, quite often the answer is no.
Posted by DeucesLive

TBH he was the aggressor pre so with a fantastic flop imo he has to carry on with the aggression.OK Qhigh isn't great but raising with it was imo perfect play

seppe

In Response to Re: would a check raise have give me more chance to bluff:

What's more important to note is rather than looking at the river play you need to look at the whole hand because I think it's all butchered. Firstly preflop- Q9s is not strong enough to play out of the weakest position. Just flat it. On the flop it's hardly ideal having an A and K there, but you raised pre- they're in your range. And you have the NFD to boot. You need to be betting out there as the preflop aggressor, or at least check raising instead of check calling.    On the turn and river a real sized bet would have given you more chance- you bet 40p into 1.10, then 90 into 1.90. Both times less than a half pot bet. If you've decided to represent the king here, I'd be looking to make the real move on the turn (bearing in mind you have the flush outs still) by making it around 70/80p. Now the pot is more like 2.60 going into the river, and you can make a bet of around 1.80/2.00, which now gives him a lot more to think about. With bigger bets you can definitely represent a KQ/KJ style hand here. But you have to stop and think- is my player good enough to see that, and fold an A? At these stakes, quite often the answer is no.
Posted by DeucesLive

Really? You cannot be serious, open raising q9 is fine.

Everything else agreed

DeucesLive

Open raising a weak hand from the SB? That's just asking for trouble, remember rule #1 of poker- position is key. If you're gonna raise with weak hands (and Q9 is indeed weak) you want to be doing it in a place where at least you've got a chance of being in position. Just my opinion of course, and you can by all means diversify by throwing these raises in occasionally, but your default setting should be having a tighter line for opening with the small blind, since you have to act without any information- as is the case here. 

As played, I think we're in agreement Est? You might have misunderstood me, because once he makes the raise preflop, he has to carry on the story with that board- it hits every part of his range. But again, this is why I hate playing out of position- on every street he has no information as to what the villain has, and has to bet in the dark. The only info he has is what he gained preflop- which is to say, that a limp/call means either the villain isn't that strong, and is probably a fairly weak player. Based on that, you can easily put raggy aces/KQ/KJ type hands in his range, especially given the fact he bets out. As it's played out, you can pretty much see he has a raggy ace that he's very unlikely to put down, but in this case it's worth getting the notes on him for future- he could easily be a nice goldmine. If he ever hits a board sideways, you can probably milk him when you get a premium hand, just don't try bluffing him after he shows interest in the flop.

est1967

In Response to Re: would a check raise have give me more chance to bluff:

Open raising a weak hand from the SB? That's just asking for trouble, remember rule #1 of poker- position is key. If you're gonna raise with weak hands (and Q9 is indeed weak) you want to be doing it in a place where at least you've got a chance of being in position. Just my opinion of course, and you can by all means diversify by throwing these raises in occasionally, but your default setting should be having a tighter line for opening with the small blind, since you have to act without any information- as is the case here.  As played, I think we're in agreement Est? You might have misunderstood me, because once he makes the raise preflop, he has to carry on the story with that board- it hits every part of his range. But again, this is why I hate playing out of position- on every street he has no information as to what the villain has, and has to bet in the dark. The only info he has is what he gained preflop- which is to say, that a limp/call means either the villain isn't that strong, and is probably a fairly weak player. Based on that, you can easily put raggy aces/KQ/KJ type hands in his range, especially given the fact he bets out. As it's played out, you can pretty much see he has a raggy ace that he's very unlikely to put down, but in this case it's worth getting the notes on him for future- he could easily be a nice goldmine. If he ever hits a board sideways, you can probably milk him when you get a premium hand, just don't try bluffing him after he shows interest in the flop.
Posted by DeucesLive

Yeah im in agreement,A lot of players regard Q9as a raising hand first to bet and yes in tournaments with marginal chip stacks I agree but id never do this on cash with his position,But with that flop id do my stack as I would would put it allin and hope for heart.

craigcu12

part of why I probably went for the raise preflop with Q9s was the villain in the cut off just limped so all I could sense was he is set mining or just calling any two cards suited. basically you could say I was punishing the limper but I then messed up the play post flop by not doing the cbet which I should have did.