Is there any money to be made in DYM's anymore?

Andyl1986

Hi all,

Used to grind the £5.50's and sometimes £11's a couple of years back and had a pretty good ROI.  Stopped because I got a bit bored and returned recently and they seem to be trickier; players seem more clued up and in general aren't making as many mistakes .  What do others think?  Are these games now 'solved'?

Jac35

Yes, is the answer to the thread title.

With all respect though, you should be honest with your claims.

It is very easy to check on players results these days.

You haven't actually grinded the Dyms. Your results don't actually show a good roi.

However, over a 247 game sample it is impossible to determine whether or not you are a winning or losing player.

Andyl1986

In Response to Re: Is there any money to be made in DYM's anymore?:

Yes, is the answer to the thread title. With all respect though, you should be honest with your claims. It is very easy to check on players results these days. You haven't actually grinded the Dyms. Your results don't actually show a good roi. However, over a 247 game sample it is impossible to determine whether or not you are a winning or losing player.
Posted by Jac35

Sorry - was summarising for the purposes of the question.

Assuming you have used SharkScope it appears I have more volume and a higher ROI at the £11's.

Jac35

I'm guessing now that you're just messing about.

At 10's you have 13 games at -29.7 roi!

Andyl1986

In Response to Re: Is there any money to be made in DYM's anymore?:

I'm guessing now that you're just messing about. At 10's you have 13 games at -29.7 roi!
Posted by Jac35

Definitely not - sorry but you must have a date filter on or something because that's definitely incorrect!

JSTFLIPPIN

With the JohnConnor guide and other guides made to help people they're much tougher esp £11~ don't understand people that make guides for free but oh well

wason06

Yes, there is still plenty of money to be made at the DYM's. Game selection is key in maintaining a good ROI at the higher levels. 

Jac has made a mistake with your stats. 10.3% ROI over 698 games shows your more than capable of climbing the levels.

Jac35

Andy

I'm really sorry.

After numerous beers last night, my search for you missed out the "l" in your screen name.

As Wason says your stats so far suggest you should have no trouble making decent money from the Dyms.

Games from £10 and above have got tougher I believe with plenty of good regs around. There is still plenty of value to be had though.

Remember though that this is still a relatively small sample and 10.3% would be hard to maintain.

Hope you do it though and once again, huge apologies.

You must have thought I was mad!

Smitalos

With a flat 10% rake, it's almost impossible for anyone to make money (in the long run) from DYMs.

VespaPX

Been playing mainly DYM's for 18 months and still in profit (no new deposits) :-)

bludreid11

i stopped playing DYMs, not because of MY play but the stupidity of others.
once the chip leader could easily fold his/her way to cashing, they decide to get involved and bleed chips
to every short stack.
this type of play is outwith my control, its not as if you can tell them to just fold, you only need to come 3rd
to cash.
any game where my % of the chips can be influenced by others bad play, is not the type of game i want to play.
so i only play cash now, maybe i still lose a hand but thats because of MY play

Jac35

In Response to Re: Is there any money to be made in DYM's anymore?:

With a flat 10% rake, it's almost impossible for anyone to make money (in the long run) from DYMs.
Posted by Smitalos

Incorrect

bipolarkid

Every variant of poker is harder to make a profit at now than 2 years ago. Go look at all the regs playing $10NL cash games on Pokerstars.

Smitalos

In Response to Re: Is there any money to be made in DYM's anymore?:

In Response to Re: Is there any money to be made in DYM's anymore? : Incorrect
Posted by Jac35

Given a 10% rake...
Playing 20 DYMs, you'd have to cash in 11, just to break even. (55% ITM rate)

This is why on every other highly successful site other than Sky, has/had a rake for DYMs in the single-digits.

Think of it this way. The more players you have the opportunity to play against, the bigger your edge is. Just like in a HU match (with a DYM), you only have to outlast half of the field to cash, so the edge is nowhere near as great for any skilled player.
This concept also applies to the payscale for a tournament or sit+go. The more top-heavy a structure is, the bigger the edge for the winnings players. Conversely, the flatter it is, the lesser the edge.

No matter how good you are, winning more than 55 out of every 100 DYMs, is an extremely tough ask. Borderline impossible for anyone who isn't an absolute crushcake.

Jac35

In Response to Re: Is there any money to be made in DYM's anymore?:

In Response to Re: Is there any money to be made in DYM's anymore? : Given a 10% rake... Playing 20 DYMs, you'd have to cash in 11, just to break even. (55% ITM rate) This is why on every other highly successful site other than Sky, has/had a rake for DYMs in the single-digits. Think of it this way. The more players you have the opportunity to play against, the bigger your edge is. Just like in a HU match (with a DYM), you only have to outlast half of the field to cash, so the edge is nowhere near as great for any skilled player. This concept also applies to the payscale for a tournament or sit+go. The more top-heavy a structure is, the bigger the edge for the winnings players. Conversely, the flatter it is, the lesser the edge. No matter how good you are, winning more than 55 out of every 100 DYMs, is an extremely tough ask. Borderline impossible for anyone who isn't an absolute crushcake.
Posted by Smitalos

Agree that the rake for Dyms is disappointing.

Have to disagree on your other comments though to an extent

I think it's a relative thing. I'm certainly not a "crushcake" but as a low stakes player they have given me decent returns in the 18 months I've played on Sky. I'm pretty average as a player and so if I can find a variant where I think it's possible I do have a small edge then I believe reasonable returns can be made.

In your case, where you would be playing higher stakes, your opponents are far more likely to be playing "perfectly" and so the edges would be a lot smaller. For you, I'm sure Dyms would be less profitable than cash.

Andyl1986

No worries Jac... I was starting to question myself last night!

For me it's about exploiting other players' mistakes.  If everyone played a solid TAG game and the shove / fold stage on the bubble perfectly then it would purely come down to the cards and 55% would be pretty much unsustainable (although I guess this could apply to all forms of poker).

In every DYM I play I still encounter weak players.  For example, in a £3.30 tonight a player 3bet shoved all in in the second level with 88 and got called by QJ - suicidal play from both players.

The 'double your money' tag line attracts a lot of weak players so I think there will always be an edge there to grind out a modest ROI.

Smitalos

In Response to Re: Is there any money to be made in DYM's anymore?:

In Response to Re: Is there any money to be made in DYM's anymore? : Agree that the rake for Dyms is disappointing. Have to disagree on your other comments though to an extent I think it's a relative thing. I'm certainly not a "crushcake" but as a low stakes player they have given me decent returns in the 18 months I've played on Sky. I'm pretty average as a player and so if I can find a variant where I think it's possible I do have a small edge then I believe reasonable returns can be made. In your case, where you would be playing higher stakes, your opponents are far more likely to be playing "perfectly" and so the edges would be a lot smaller. For you, I'm sure Dyms would be less profitable than cash.
Posted by Jac35

With a sample size of over 5000 games at the low/micro limits, you have a solid 59% ITM rate, which also keeps keeps in line with your 9% ROI.
v.wp sir.

Games must be good to have a win-rate that high in DYMs, and credit to you. I can only assume that the higher you move up, the lesser the edge, and closer and closer to break even you'd get, even with a great win-rate of ~55%. At the Micro limits, the rake can be up to 20%, or even more iirc? So the sweet spot must be in that Low level then, I guess.

gg guys!