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again and again!

you didnt post my last one, but could u tell me some stats? just been done again and then again when dominating on the river 3 outs they hit again, this happens 90% of the time, not just this i lose 90% of races, can this be explained? i would like to see all my stats if i can, can i do this?

Comments

  • edited July 2013
    Why do you need to see your statistics if you already know that you're losing 90% of the time?

    You wouldn't believe the number of posts we see just like this. I'll bottom line this for you. You have two choices:

    1) Continue to think that either you're terribly unlucky or the software is rigged against you. You'll never improve, will keep losing and will keep blaming things beyond your control for your poor results.

    2) You can study the game more deeply and educate yourself on variance, expected value and all sorts of other things that will help you understand that even the best players only have a small edge.

    It's up to you.
  • edited July 2013
    In Response to Re: again and again!:
    Why do you need to see your statistics if you already know that you're losing 90% of the time? You wouldn't believe the number of posts we see just like this. I'll bottom line this for you. You have two choices: 1) Continue to think that either you're terribly unlucky or the software is rigged against you. You'll never improve, will keep losing and will keep blaming things beyond your control for your poor results. 2) You can study the game more deeply and educate yourself on variance, expected value and all sorts of other things that will help you understand that even the best players only have a small edge. It's up to you.
    Posted by BorinLoner
    I just want to look back on everything it happens too often, I'm trying my friend but its too annoying, the last hand I must played, someone shoved with ace 3, someone called light with ace 7, I knew this so I shove with eights, blinds were pretty high lowish stack, someone else calls all in with ace queen, guess what the first card was? The case ace which was no suprise, so I'm now behind everyone with which was the best hand next cards are blanks, did I do anything wrong? If there's more bad luck out there I don't see it!

  • edited July 2013
    How did you know that the shover and the caller had A7 and A3? You didn't. What you actually did was call with 88 in the face of an all-in and a call. It's difficult to say for sure because you're not telling us enough about the circumstances, but making calls like that is probably a losing play, regardless of the hands that you happened to be up against on this particular occasion.

    From the way you discuss the game I can promise you that you have an awful lot to learn. Your thinking is results orientated, as demonstrated above, and you think a small number of hands is a representative sample. You also don't include vital information when you talk about a hand, which suggests that you don't appreciate why that information is so vital.

    I can only tell you that people who go down the route of "I'm really unlucky and things don't seem right to me" are always people that don't understand the true variance and expected returns of the game. If you want to engage with other players in constructive discussion to improve your game, you've got to let go of the attitude that something's not quite right.

    Only a small proportion of players are winning players. They don't win because they're lucky, they win because they put an awful lot of time and effort into improving. They make good decisions and are rewarded in the long run. If you're making losses in the long run, it's because you're making bad decisions, not because the game is crooked.
  • edited July 2013
    It may have been the case A but there are only 52 cards so it will pop up every now and then
    When Borin talks about variance what he means is that you can get hit by these time and time again merely by chance
    and hence posts like yours suggests you haven't lived through enough poker hands to realise this happens so often
    and are trying to ascribe other reasons to something which is just a case of being unlucky or due to poor play
    in the hand in question you were odds on to lose
    you just didn't know in advance how

  • edited July 2013
    In Response to Re: again and again!:
    It may have been the case A but there are only 52 cards so it will pop up every now and then When Borin talks about variance what he means is that you can get hit by these time and time again merely by chance and hence posts like yours suggests you haven't lived through enough poker hands to realise this happens so often and are trying to ascribe other reasons to something which is just a case of being unlucky or due to poor play in the hand in question you were odds on to lose you just didn't know in advance how
    Posted by GELDY
    Agree and disagree, I knew what they were both doing as playing with them for a while and the situation, which I was proved correct!nAlright fair enough with the donk calling 3 all ins with ace queen surely u think this is bad? With only one ace left how am I losing here odds wise it can't be by much if at all? The ace queen has overs but only 4 due to the aces being out! How am I not clear favourite against the ace 7 and ace 3? In this situation I've made the correct play and call just unluck again! I'm annoyed because it keeps happening in different situations where I am favourite with the hands pre flop and post making the correct calls but I get sucked out on 9 out of 10 times! I am trying to learn more and I am but I'm venting the suck outs if I need one rarely happen for me that's all
  • edited July 2013
    In Response to Re: again and again!:
    In Response to Re: again and again! : Agree and disagree, I knew what they were both doing as playing with them for a while and the situation, which I was proved correct!nAlright fair enough with the donk calling 3 all ins with ace queen surely u think this is bad? With only one ace left how am I losing here odds wise it can't be by much if at all? The ace queen has overs but only 4 due to the aces being out! How am I not clear favourite against the ace 7 and ace 3? In this situation I've made the correct play and call just unluck again! I'm annoyed because it keeps happening in different situations where I am favourite with the hands pre flop and post making the correct calls but I get sucked out on 9 out of 10 times! I am trying to learn more and I am but I'm venting the suck outs if I need one rarely happen for me that's all
    Posted by jonpaulf29
    That's just it. You think it was a good call because they happened to show you A3, A7 and AQ. That's results orientated thinking because you didn't know when you made the call that they had to have weaker hands than yours. You didn't know that they weren't going to show up with AJ and 99, a situation you'd be a massive underdog in.

    You really did get the best possible outcome when your opponents all show up with Ax hands, but that's not what's going to happen most of the time. Most of the time, they'll both have either two over cards or a pair. Against their possible ranges you're not in good shape and this call is therefore bad.

    If the initial two opponents had the following hands;

    88 v KQs v A5o 

    which is actually a really good scenario for you, the equity would be:

    36% (88) v 39% (KQs) v 25% (A5o)

    So the KQ would be the best hand in this situation. If the A5 was in fact an overpair to your 88:

    17% (88) v 40% (KQs) v 43% (JJ)



    Your call wasn't proved correct simply because this time they happened to have those Ax hands. Most of the time, you're getting it in behind and some of the time you're getting it in a long, long way behind.

    Don't call other players donks. It just makes you seem rude. It's an especially bad idea if you're actually a losing player yourself.
  • edited July 2013
    In Response to Re: again and again!:
    In Response to Re: again and again! : That's just it. You think it was a good call because they happened to show you A3, A7 and AQ. That's results orientated thinking because you didn't know when you made the call that they had to have weaker hands than yours. You didn't know that they weren't going to show up with AJ and 99, a situation you'd be a massive underdog in. You really did get the best possible outcome when your opponents all show up with Ax hands, but that's not what's going to happen most of the time. Most of the time, they'll both have either two over cards or a pair. Against their possible ranges you're not in good shape and this call is therefore bad. If the initial two opponents had the following hands; 88 v KQs v A5o  which is actually a really good scenario for you, the equity would be: 36% (88) v 39% (KQs) v 25% (A5o) So the KQ would be the best hand in this situation. If the A5 was in fact an overpair to your 88: 17% (88) v 40% (KQs) v 43% (JJ) Your call wasn't proved correct simply because this time they happened to have those Ax hands. Most of the time, you're getting it in behind and some of the time you're getting it in a long, long way behind. Don't call other players donks. It just makes you seem rude. It's an especially bad idea if you're actually a losing player yourself.
    Posted by BorinLoner
    Stop saying I didn't know I was playing them! It's called making a good read! Yes I could have been wrong obviously so could everyone but I was right! Especially with the stacks. So someone calling all in with ace queen after 3 all ins u think is good?, I ain't a losing player well only a little bit,, yeas I know if I have underpair to two overs its a race but it wasn't on this occasion, I'm saying this when I'm talking about pre flop, not post I do know I have to adjust to everything post, on the hand I was talking about what was the equity on the hands?Im ranting because getting it on pre flop with best hand 9 out of ten times when I do make right moves and calls and lose 9 out of 10 times it gets frustrating! 

  • edited July 2013
    In Response to Re: again and again!:
    In Response to Re: again and again! : That's just it. You think it was a good call because they happened to show you A3, A7 and AQ. That's results orientated thinking because you didn't know when you made the call that they had to have weaker hands than yours. You didn't know that they weren't going to show up with AJ and 99, a situation you'd be a massive underdog in. You really did get the best possible outcome when your opponents all show up with Ax hands, but that's not what's going to happen most of the time. Most of the time, they'll both have either two over cards or a pair. Against their possible ranges you're not in good shape and this call is therefore bad. If the initial two opponents had the following hands; 88 v KQs v A5o  which is actually a really good scenario for you, the equity would be: 36% (88) v 39% (KQs) v 25% (A5o) So the KQ would be the best hand in this situation. If the A5 was in fact an overpair to your 88: 17% (88) v 40% (KQs) v 43% (JJ) Your call wasn't proved correct simply because this time they happened to have those Ax hands. Most of the time, you're getting it in behind and some of the time you're getting it in a long, long way behind. Don't call other players donks. It just makes you seem rude. It's an especially bad idea if you're actually a losing player yourself.
    Posted by BorinLoner
    Stop saying I didn't know I was playing them! It's called making a good read! Yes I could have been wrong obviously so could everyone but I was right! Especially with the stacks. So someone calling all in with ace queen after 3 all ins u think is good?, I ain't a losing player well only a little bit,, yeas I know if I have underpair to two overs its a race but it wasn't on this occasion, I'm saying this when I'm talking about pre flop, not post I do know I have to adjust to everything post, on the hand I was talking about what was the equity on the hands?Im ranting because getting it on pre flop with best hand 9 out of ten times when I do make right moves and calls and lose 9 out of 10 times it gets frustrating! 

  • edited July 2013
    Against the three hands as they actually were, you were a 50:50 shot. The AQ is about 34% and the others each have around 7% with a 2% chance of a split pot between your three opponents. Those numbers are suit dependent. You can put it into an equity calculator.

    It's not a good read that the shover and caller must have weaker hands than yours, though. You need to give them both ranges of hands which they could have and work out your equity against them. If the first opponent can have A3, he can presumably have AA, JJ, KQ, A9, QJ, etc. just as easily. The caller's range should be stronger than this because you need a bigger hand to call than to shove.

    I don't know if calling with AQ was good because you haven't given any information on stack sizes or on the potential ranges of the player's involved. In a vacuum, I'd say that the call with AQ in this situation is very unlikely to be a good one. However, the player with the AQ isn't the one asking the question.

    I'm saying that I think it's pretty unlikely that calling here with the 88 is a good play. You'd have to provide a lot more information. Post the hand history if you can find it and give us reads on each opponent, such as; What hands have you seen them open-shove with/call with previously? How often has the opener been shoving?

    Without that information and without stack sizes, payout structures and all sorts of other things, I can only offer an opinion in a vacuum. In a vacuum, I don't think the call with 88 is a good one because you're hoping to be flipping and will frequently be way behind.

    As for you losing with the best hand 90% of the time, well that's just an assertion you can't back up with any evidence. It's much more likely that you're just overlooking the occasions when your best hand actually holds up.

    Listen, I don't want to be getting on your case. I don't actually care if you're a winning player or not. It makes no difference to me. All I'm saying is that getting upset, thinking that you're losing because you're "unlucky" or because there's something dodgy happening, is going to prevent you from improving. You need to be critical of your own play at all times and not let your ego get involved and that's a problem we all have.

    Try posting some hand histories in the Clinic section and see what people think. I'd advise just about every player to do the same, so don't think I'm singling you out.
  • edited July 2013
    In Response to Re: again and again!:
    Against the three hands as they actually were, you were a 50:50 shot. The AQ is about 34% and the others each have around 7% with a 2% chance of a split pot between your three opponents. Those numbers are suit dependent. You can put it into an equity calculator. It's not a good read that the shover and caller must have weaker hands than yours, though. You need to give them both ranges of hands which they could have and work out your equity against them. If the first opponent can have A3, he can presumably have AA, JJ, KQ, A9, QJ, etc. just as easily. The caller's range should be stronger than this because you need a bigger hand to call than to shove. I don't know if calling with AQ was good because you haven't given any information on stack sizes or on the potential ranges of the player's involved. In a vacuum, I'd say that the call with AQ in this situation is very unlikely to be a good one. However, the player with the AQ isn't the one asking the question. I'm saying that I think it's pretty unlikely that calling here with the 88 is a good play. You'd have to provide a lot more information. Post the hand history if you can find it and give us reads on each opponent, such as; What hands have you seen them open-shove with/call with previously? How often has the opener been shoving? Without that information and without stack sizes, payout structures and all sorts of other things, I can only offer an opinion in a vacuum. In a vacuum, I don't think the call with 88 is a good one because you're hoping to be flipping and will frequently be way behind. As for you losing with the best hand 90% of the time, well that's just an assertion you can't back up with any evidence. It's much more likely that you're just overlooking the occasions when your best hand actually holds up. Listen, I don't want to be getting on your case. I don't actually care if you're a winning player or not. It makes no difference to me. All I'm saying is that getting upset, thinking that you're losing because you're "unlucky" or because there's something dodgy happening, is going to prevent you from improving. You need to be critical of your own play at all times and not let your ego get involved and that's a problem we all have. Try posting some hand histories in the Clinic section and see what people think. I'd advise just about every player to do the same, so don't think I'm singling you out.
    Posted by BorinLoner
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