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F_Ivanovic's QQ thread.

edited July 2013 in The Poker Clinic
PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
90six90 Small blind  £0.10 £0.10 £21.98
F_Ivanovic Big blind  £0.20 £0.30 £20.10
 Your hole cards
  • Q
  • Q
   
argo Fold     
RyanCraze Raise  £0.60 £0.90 £32.07
N_13 Fold     
barx1210 Raise  £2.20 £3.10 £16.50
90six90 Raise  £5.00 £8.10 £16.98
F_Ivanovic Fold    

Comments

  • edited July 2013
    F_Ivanovic, I've no idea what has happened to your thread. I managed to pull this from it, but from my point of view it was unusable. Maybe it's something to do with my browser, I don't know. Perhaps others can see it but if not, they can post here. I've removed the result.

    I couldn't see any information you posted regarding dynamics, reads, etc.

    In a vacuum I'd say a fold is fine. It's read dependent obviously, but a cold 4-bet from the small blind isn't exactly screaming weakness.
  • edited July 2013
    Ahh so it wasn't just me then :)

    Nice work BL.

    Yeah +1 to what BL said, you're not gonna be in good shape here very often. I'd want notes to say I'd seen this player overvalue hands like TT/JJ/AQ pre and have been happy to get it in, also ideally that we'd seen them do it 'cold' like in this spot. Unlikely you'll have that read on many (any?) opponents at 20NL
  • edited July 2013
    easy fold don`t think many 20nl 4bet bluff ever and also most of their 3betting range is also very tight aa/kk/qq/ak
  • edited July 2013
    Greater chance 57% it's AK but anyhow......who said cash games on sky ain't nitty yo!
  • edited July 2013
    I think I might even be able to fold this
    don't hold me to that though
    pigs do fly occasionally

  • edited July 2013
    I remember having a televised hand some years ago with a similar situation- I put in a raise, the guy behind me 3bet, then the SB 4bet it. The advice given to me by Trevor Harris was to ship it, QQ is too strong to fold and the guy could be squeezing (it was same stakes as this, FWIW).

    I personally disagree. Without being results orientated, the 3bet was JJ (figures) and the 4bet was KK (also figures). It was pretty much the exact range I'd assigned them in this spot. The JJ then pushed and was of course snapped off by KK.

    His argument was if you start folding QQ there, where does it stop- do you also fold KK? To which of course the answer is no, against the 4 premium hands KK fares extremely well. But QQ is in all kinds of trouble here mostly- because of the 4 premium hands, him having QQ is exceptionally unlikely, you're virtually a flip against AK and KK/AA crushes you. And the 4bettor has those hands practically always. Hell, either of the other two raisers could quite easily have you beat.

    I fold this without even thinking about it...
  • edited July 2013
    Origional thread is weird for me too.


    In terms of this hand i dont think i can say better than other have already but love this line. 
  • edited July 2013
    Thanks Borin! Can anyone enlighten me how to go about posting a hand history then, so I don't make the same mistake again?

    Anyway, as to the hand, I didn't really have much in the way of reads except all three appeared to be regulars. There wasn't much in the way of 3-betting going on let alone 4-betting so when this happened I was almost certain there must have been a big hand in the way of KK or AA out there. Ofc the 3-better may have had JJ and the cold 4better AK (or they both could have had AK) and given it was only 100bbs it did seem very nitty for me to be folding QQ!

    Usually I can never get away from QQ because it's often me that's been the 3bettor and given that I 3-bet A LOT I always assume people will play back at me with a wider range and much more likely to get it in pre with hands like TT/even AQ. I have gradually realised tho at this level that's not always the case and people will still be nitty even when facing an aggro 3-bettor!

    I'm not sure if it's too early to post results. I'll probably forget about this thread otherwise. So ignore the following (scroll down past) if you don't want to know!

















    I was up against KK and AA!
  • edited July 2013
    I'm generally guilty of making the same assumptions about players adapting to my 3-bets. It's probably my biggest leak.

    I'd love to tell you how to avoid the mistakes you made posting the hand but I've never seen that before, so I can't tell you what caused it. It looks like it copied half your screen straight onto the thread. It's pretty weird.

    All I can say is that I use IE10 and highlight from the "P" of player down to the point I want the hand to finish. Don't include any buttons or the Hand ID at the top. That's the usual answer for problems posting hands but you seem to have an unusual problem.
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