was it risky KQ UTG mid stages of MTT

craigcu12

this isn't a moan about not winning, i'm just thinking normally the thing villians will have when they jam is either an A or pocket pair so the chance of KQ being ahead is very slim.
is the risk of draining chips too much for this when UTG?

S2H_19	Big blind		200.00	200.00	1922.50
	Your hole cards	Q K
craigcu12	Raise		400.00	600.00	11172.50
alexbello	Fold
rizlakid18	Fold
x	All-in		2480.00	3080.00	0.00
S2H_19	Fold
craigcu12	Call		2080.00	5160.00	9092.50
craigcu12	Show	Q K
x	Show	A 10
Flop
		5 9 8
Turn
		3
River
		2
x	Win	Ace high	5160.00		5160.00

F_Ivanovic

You need 40% equity to call. Download pokerstove if you haven't already got it (it's free) and put your hand in and then put in a different range of opponents hands and see what hands he needs to be shoving for you to get more than 40% equity. At a rough guess, if he's shoving ATo then he's probably shoving fairly wide and KQs is definitely going to be a profitable call.

By downloading pokerstove, you won't be troubled by these spots in the future because you can just plug it in to pokerstove and see what the correct decision was.

If it's a close decision either way, you should look at your current stack size to determine whether or not to call. Here, you have more than enough chips so it becomes a clear call against all but very tight shoving ranges. If making the call would leave you crippled/very short and you believed there could be plenty of better spots then you can justify folding. Although with KQs and a stack size of 12-15bbs I would much rather just shove UTG to create maximum fold equity.

unknown_username

Hi C

I think that this is a good question to be considered by the forum. Certainly you need to be considering the effective stack sizes you are up against at the table and their aggressiveness. Certainly being so short csi=4 you expect the button to shove and, for a good bet mathematically, you need 40% equity against his range. Kill Everyone has good charts showing shoving/calling ranges for certain positions which may surprise you. Certainly i would call the button shove considering his position, effective stack size and knowing that i am closing the bidding. Remember a lot will bluff in this position. If he was utg then i think it changes as he is prepared to be called. The bluff is unlikely. Certainly you are behind i'd suspect and versus just utg shove i fold though versus one other short stack you can call, i feel, as the chance of a good pot has appeared.

BorinLoner

I think we need to forget the pot odds and equity for a moment...

I say that because we need to have noticed that we're up against at least two short stacks on the table, with 12BB and 11BB. We need to anticipate that they're very likely to shove over the top of our raise and so we shouldn't be open-raising if we're not prepared to call a shove from one of them.

Min-raise-folding KQ here would be very bad readless. The only reason to min-raise fold against these stack sizes is that they're folding way too often and we're not afraid that they might 3-bet us with anything other than big hands. However, that should mean that we're raising a very, very wide range against them to fully exploit that tendency of folding too often.

We can fold here if that's the case and if those guys are folding way too often. That would mean this villain's range probably dominates our KQ. It would also mean that there's an obviously better way of exploiting our opponents; by folding this flip situation and raising the next hand.
 
We can't fold if this villain is 3-bet shoving the wider range you'd normally expect because our KQ will have too much equity against his range. We also make ourselves exploitable if we're habitually raise-folding against short stacks.

So if we're planning to fold to a shove, we shouldn't raise the KQ, unless we know that oppo's 3-betting range is super-narrow. If it is narrow, we should be raise-folding a super-wide range.

IDONKCALLU

i think this is a call now u have raised it pre its not that much extra to call and u can easily be up against under pair here so ya flipping if ya up against ak or aq oh well next hand move on once u have raised here i think its a call all day long

rancid

You should know if you are going to m/r fold versus the stack sizes behind you before you act.


You shouldn't really be asking yourself at the time after you have m/r.