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short stack limpers again

edited August 2013 in The Poker Clinic
would it have been better to just do a raise first before risking my full stack?
the chances are if he did then jam i would be certain that he was holding a decent hand and i'm now thinking these are just too overly worried about their stacks to jam.
xSmall blind  100.00 100.00 1700.00
craigcu12 Big blind  200.00 300.00 2595.00
  Your hole cards
  • 10
  • K
     
LucyGucy Fold     
Delboy821 Fold     
al873killl Fold     
Claytov Fold     
xCall  100.00 400.00 1600.00
craigcu12 All-in  2595.00 2995.00 0.00
xAll-in  1600.00 4595.00 0.00
craigcu12 Unmatched bet  995.00 3600.00 995.00
xShow
  • A
  • A
   
craigcu12 Show
  • 10
  • K

Comments

  • edited August 2013
    this guy might have a decent hand but their are a lot of villians who even with short stack limp with poor hands what i am thinking but is if they have a decent one and saw a raise the are probably going to think i have a good hand and so will jam but if they are poor they will just fold.
  • edited August 2013
    KToff?

    More inclined to check and hope to play a flop.

  • edited August 2013
    In Response to Re: short stack limpers again:
    this guy might have a decent hand but their are a lot of villians who even with short stack limp with poor hands what i am thinking but is if they have a decent one and saw a raise the are probably going to think i have a good hand and so will jam but if they are poor they will just fold.
    Posted by craigcu12
    Please add some punctuation, I cant understand the post.
  • edited August 2013
    Why do you think its so terrible for a player who has probably been limping in all game to also limp AA? Do you have a devine right to get raised into with monsters?

    It also doesn't matter alot that villain limped. I'm prob not folding KT blind vs blind to an 8 big blind shove unless the villain is an complete nit.

    Also, don't be so results orientated.
  • edited August 2013

    it's things like this
    he decided to limp i did the raise with a fairly decent hand on the button with 2 decent cards but what does he do jam which i guessed meant a premium hand for sure.

    ANGIE_GG Small blind  40.00 40.00 4270.00
    ROCKET80 Big blind  80.00 120.00 4030.00
      Your hole cards
    • J
    • K
         
    blacc Fold     
    ElmoIsBlue Fold     
    aCall  80.00 200.00 1470.00
    craigcu12 Raise  320.00 520.00 3022.50
    ANGIE_GG Fold     
    ROCKET80 Call  240.00 760.00 3790.00
    aAll-in  1470.00 2230.00 0.00
    craigcu12 Fold     
    ROCKET80 Fold     
    aMuck     
    aWin  1000.00  1000.00
    aReturn  1230.00 0.00 2230.00

    here i did jam and the SB folded so i am thinking he will fold a raise too if my stack was bigger i maybe could do a raise
    bSmall blind  100.00 100.00 3487.50
    craigcu12 Big blind  200.00 300.00 1575.00
      Your hole cards
    • 9
    • A
         
    Nannypat66 Fold     
    fCall  200.00 500.00 1860.00
    watto84 Fold     
    bCall  100.00 600.00 3387.50
    craigcu12 All-in  1575.00 2175.00 0.00
    fCall  1575.00 3750.00 285.00
    brooks0606 Fold     
    craigcu12 Show
    • 9
    • A
       
    fShow
    • 4
    • 4
    and this limper did call the raise but he donks the flop and well i will fold as i missed
    ROCKET80 Small blind  50.00 50.00 6710.00
    blacc Big blind  100.00 150.00 3660.00
      Your hole cards
    • A
    • Q
         
    ElmoIsBlue Fold     
    cCall  100.00 250.00 7343.75
    craigcu12 Raise  400.00 650.00 2502.50
    ANGIE_GG Fold     
    ROCKET80 Call  350.00 1000.00 6360.00
    blacc Fold     
    cCall  300.00 1300.00 7043.75
    Flop
       
    • 2
    • 9
    • 10
         
    ROCKET80 Check     
    cBet  650.00 1950.00 6393.75
    craigcu12 Fold     
    ROCKET80 Fold     
    cMuck     
    cWin  1300.00  7693.75
    cReturn  650.00 0.00 8343.75
    what i am wondering is do i have too much risk with these moderate hands to really do the jam.
  • edited August 2013
    the Axs and A10-AK hands i'm thinking fine i could jam as i do have an A so could hit a better pair and it reduces the risk of AA
    but with them smaller pairs i could jam only to see a limper with a decent pair and with the KQ KJ they might limp with Ax call or a pair.
  • edited August 2013
    Your 1st hand;

    I'd be a bit concerned about him limping blind on blind given his stack.

    K 10 isn't a great hand to be shipping with, we still have enogh chips to see another 1 or 2 orbits of the table.

    If he's been limping a lot blind on blind, then it's maybe understandable, but even then when he calls we are most times not going to be in great shape with K10.

    With a stack that size, i would be looking for a spot, to Jam over a raise when we are holding a decent enough hand when we are called.
  • edited August 2013
    if a short stack limps should I just check or call with any hand that is not AA or KK no matter how big my chip stack is.

    I did see on the sky TV a villain who had KK and he also limped when his stack was short.

    hand 1 might have been K10o that I had on this occasion but if it was AK or AQ then I am usually going to jam but would it be best to just check with even them type of hands
  • edited August 2013
    If a short stack limped and i had a massive stack, i would set them all in with pretty strong hands, most pocket pairs, big aces, KQ.

    If it was a not very good hand, i'd just check and see a flop hoping to improve.

    If it was shortish stack on shortish stack, i would shove the same as above, if it was a marginal hand i'd just see a flop, and fold to any bet had we not improved. If they check i might try and put in a min raise, and give up 2 any resistance or call.

    Just depends on dynamics and how the players been playing, but i'd always want to have a reasonable hand when shoving in case we are called. Unless we are ultra short stacked
  • edited August 2013
    Standard jam with K10 to a limp B on B. 

    Nice trap nh etc
  • edited August 2013
    Im jamming 100% of the time with K10 if the sb limps in with 8bb.

    Yes it looks a little weird the limp but we cant be messing around with flops with our stack and K10 is a decent hand BvB being so short.

    A lot of times he shows up with worse hands/hands which arent far ahead of us.

    Someone did this to me in my exit hand from SPT Nottingham.  I had 43s in the bb with 10bb behind.  Blinds were about to go up and antes were killing me.  Guy limps into my BB on a new table I just sat on.  I decide I'll shove as my cards are live.  He calls and shows QQ.  Im happy to get my chips in situations like this.  Tournament poker... with blinds going up and people playing so short, these hands play themselves.  Sometimes its just not meant to be.
  • edited August 2013
    Readless, not shoving the hand in the OP would be a disaster.

    If you take every opportunity to raise an unknown small blind limper, you will be making a profitable play. We've all had players make-up from the small blind when they're too short to be doing so. How often has it been a monster hand? One time in fifty? Less often than that? We can't get hung up on the few occasions that they actually have a big hand. The value of the chips in the middle here is too great.

    The only reason not to shove is that our opponent has been habitually raising in these spots before. Now we'd have to ask ourselves how limping alters his range. We may be suspicious, especially given the short stacks. In a vacuum, however, this is going to be a weak hand a lot more often than it's a strong one and our opponent just folds when we shove.

    The bottom line is that we have a hand that smashes the opponent's range and there is 'dead' money in the pot amounting to 15% of our stack. Our opponent needs to have a big hand a huge proportion of the time for this not to be a profitable shove.
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