Too busy OOP on a new table - or too nitty on the river?

Phantom66

NOTE to self - don't get busy OOP on a new table...

This was a timed tourney - just been moved to a new table

Don't normally mind my open (except that it's a new table and bound to be OOP if called so could have folded)

Don't really mind my c-bet seemed standard on that flop and timed tourneys are generally tight.

Hit the turn which is also a scare card - maybe I should have slowed down and check-called or shoved hoping to take pot down.

Scary river - check-folded - weak or sensible? Felt weak at the time. In the end I survived the time limit and got up to 12k chips for a pay-out.

(NB Red board cards are all Diamonds - my J is a heart - funny things happening on the cut and paste sorry)

 

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
kennybad	Small blind		150.00	150.00	8950.00
eurogav	Big blind		300.00	450.00	14912.50
	Your hole cards	•K •J
TRICKYMICK	Fold
Phantom66	Raise		900.00	1350.00	12769.75
villain	Call		900.00	2250.00	13087.50
JoshG943	Fold
kennybad	Fold
eurogav	Fold
Flop
		•2 •7 •9
Phantom66	Bet		1125.00	3375.00	11644.75
villain	Call		1125.00	4500.00	11962.50
Turn
		•K
Phantom66	Bet		3375.00	7875.00	8269.75
villain	Call		3375.00	11250.00	8587.50
River
		•3
Phantom66	Check
villain	All-in		8587.50	19837.50	0.00
Phantom66	Fold
villain	Muck
villain	Win		11250.00		11250.00
villain	Return		8587.50	0.00	19837.50

hhyftrftdr

I'll let better players than me disect the rest of the hand, but pre flop should just be a minraise. Already we've bloated the pot by making it 900 in early position. This then makes your c/b more expensive. 

As the blinds increase, a m/r should become the standard open raise. 

Phantom66

In Response to Re: Too busy OOP on a new table - or too nitty on the river?:

I'll let better players than me disect the rest of the hand, but pre flop should just be a minraise. Already we've bloated the pot by making it 900 in early position. This then makes your c/b more expensive.  As the blinds increase, a m/r should become the standard open raise. 
Posted by hhyftrftdr

That's an interesting point in itself. I try and keep my open raise sizes standard in MTTs (and I do adjust down from x4BB to x2BB as the blinds go up. On previous table I was using x3BB and getting it through, I felt I had a good TAG image and was winning showdowns and getting people off pots. New table here though so none of that counted.

I would normally be comfortable that with x3BB and <10% of my stack being risked with the raise it is an appropriate size.

I agree that x2BB would have been less risky and helped control the pot size / get away cheaply.

I would normally say once x2BB is around 10% of stack then it is min raise time but I will think about that in the future related to the table and stacks.

Once 1xBB is 10% of stack then it is normally fold or shove for me.

I guess it does also depend on table dynamics (of which I knew nothing here) are min raises getting multiple callers or regularly reraised? If they are getting through often enough it is definitely the way to go.

On balance, especially given the new table and position, x2BB would have helped me get cheaper information about the new table while still giving me the opportunity to take the blinds.

hhyftrftdr

Why are you raising? KJo in early position isn't great, but it also isn't junk. So whilst we're maybe not raising to get action, we aren't always just raising just to pinch the blinds; it kinda fits somewhere inbetween. 

Early stages of an MTT, when nearly everyone is deep stacked, making it 3 or even 4x is pretty much the norm. But we should be adapting to the ever increasing blinds and ever decreasing stacks. It will vary according to the table, but when the blinds are at, for example, 100/200 then a min raise will usually be the order of the day. I would be minraising with my 'stealing' hands and also with my value hands for a balanced range.

15bb or less is shove or fold poker. 

With the hand above, I would probably come in for a min raise, and c/bet that flop. Bet the turn for value/protection, then check fold river as we beat nothing but air by then. 

Phantom66

Thanks for the feedback.

So basically, right actions on each street - could save a couple of k worth of chips with a smaller initial raise.

hhyftrftdr

In Response to Re: Too busy OOP on a new table - or too nitty on the river?:

Thanks for the feedback. So basically, right actions on each street - could save a couple of k worth of chips with a smaller initial raise.
Posted by Phantom66

You're welcome, and yes pretty much correct.

At the very late stages, getting our raise size correct is crucial. Stacks will be so shallow that we can't really make mistakes. I see it happen quite often; blinds might be, for example, 3k/6k, and it folds to the button who makes it 18k. One of the blinds jams, button folds and wastes 6k (or 1BB) needlessly. A min raise would've sufficed, especially if we know we are going to fold to resistance. One bb might not sound much, but if we're only playing 20ish or less, every blind is imperative to our stack.