low buy ins - is it worth the time?

__harry__

hi guys, harry here, a few may know me as i've been a regular for a few years now, not posted before but due to tonite's experience thought i'd start a new thread, just played in the 55p BH blitz, 145 entered, i won but only 14 quid and came 4th in the 9.45 £2.20 speed, 20 odd quid 59 entered and a lot of the establishment there, point being a good nite but only a small profit comparatively, the guys in the 9.45 were a lot of the establishment as i say, players who also play higher stakes but still entered the £2.20. Q1 is it really worth the time and effort on such low stakes? Q2 should i play less often but up my stakes? Q3 this is the real head scratcher - why do such 'established' players play these low stakes tourneys - are they fishin for ahem 'fish' or trying to recoup or just recreational playin like me or what? does that make sense? any comments gladly received

electroace

In Response to low buy ins - is it worth the time?:

hi guys, harry here, a few may know me as i've been a regular for a few years now, not posted before but due to tonite's experience thought i'd start a new thread, just played in the 55p BH blitz, 145 entered, i won but only 14 quid and came 4th in the 9.45 £2.20 speed, 20 odd quid 59 entered and a lot of the establishment there, point being a good nite but only a small profit comparatively, the guys in the 9.45 were a lot of the establishment as i say, players who also play higher stakes but still entered the £2.20. Q1 is it really worth the time and effort on such low stakes? Q2 should i play less often but up my stakes? Q3 this is the real head scratcher - why do such 'established' players play these low stakes tourneys - are they fishin for ahem 'fish' or trying to recoup or just recreational playin like me or what? does that make sense? any comments gladly received
Posted by __harry__

well h, my opinion is as follows also with my first thread post in three n a half years playin this site (electroace) for those who've payed and been abused a little probably apologies first off...!!!!
Q1: part 1(lol) 34 quid return on a possible probable 4.55 quid outlay is pretty good,,, return for 2.5-3 hours play I think...
part 2, time&effort=reward($) or reward=enjoyment/entertainment so if time and effort = money to you , in the longterm maybe not, if reward =enjoy/ent yes in general..
Q2: No better players, not unless comfortable to do so, or within your B/R
Q3:I enjoy the 250gtd the most for its play and structure TBH, doesn't take forever, n Ive had my best cashes /results in them I feel...the RISK VS REWARD level is something I find comfortable with having lost and won in this tourney... and thirdly to this I am probably classed as a recreational player by most of the better players on the site, but I play to win and try and learn when I lose where possible..  But what do I know... I would appreciate your feedback also h!!!! night

__harry__

In Response to Re: low buy ins - is it worth the time?:

In Response to low buy ins - is it worth the time? : well h, my opinion is as follows also with my first thread post in three n a half years playin this site (electroace) for those who've payed and been abused a little probably apologies first off...!!!! Q1: part 1(lol) 34 quid return on a possible probable 4.55 quid outlay is pretty good,,, return for 2.5-3 hours play I think... part 2, time&effort=reward($) or reward=enjoyment/entertainment so if time and effort = money to you , in the longterm maybe not, if reward =enjoy/ent yes in general.. Q2: No better players, not unless comfortable to do so, or within your B/R Q3:I enjoy the 250gtd the most for its play and structure TBH, doesn't take forever, n Ive had my best cashes /results in them I feel...the RISK VS REWARD level is something I find comfortable with having lost and won in this tourney... and thirdly to this I am probably classed as a recreational player by most of the better players on the site, but I play to win and try and learn when I lose where possible..  But what do I know... I would appreciate your feedback also h!!!! night
Posted by electroace

thanks ace for replying, apology accepted - lol!, abuse mainly received in chatbox not chipstack, wink wink, nod nod! chuckle! longterm is the question, reward/enjoyment both profitable to me, more latter than former! when u say Q2 no better players why u not up stakes yourself? as to Q3 i also have had success in this and similar tourneys - remember the £500 10.10 velocity? like tonite was often less in than the guaranteed, and agree with the risk v reward quote, but don't agree with the learn where i lose where possible in yer case - u ain't gonna change yer style  - no offence, but true, don't argue! but why do the 'better' players play this tourney tho still i contend, please elaborate if u are a said antagonist! Procrastinators and idlers please defer opinion, antagonists please be gentle!

electroace

er I've taken your chips on enough occasions, but the chatbox comment is probably true......
As far as the better players playing these "lower buy-ins" coming back down so to speak, there getting the same risk stroke reward, plus they must feel they have a better chance of winning than higher levels that contain better players!! or they just enjoy it like ME.......

As far as the "never change your style" part; I'd like to know how to do that if you feel that I'm only able to play hands in a certain way, easy to read, etc etc.... training tonight for work, but hopefully make the main event!!!!!

250gtd speed rebuy...... "No.1 tournament on sky"  SKY NEED MORE OF THESE RUNNING ON A REGULAR BASIS..

leg123

If you think the risk and reward is not making you the best returns, I would consider playin Satellite Tournements, this means your first win will not make you any return but your second might make you allot of money.

Most people me included would not think of play a £20-£50 buy in when I win that ammount in the first tournement for a few pounds buy in, but if you are straight into the next tourement you have no choice but to play it. Just be sure you are able to play in the second tourement.

tamas

no it isnt. the rake structure in low buy in cash games and tournaments make it impossible to beat the game.

+ you should move up to stakes where people respect your raises

__harry__

In Response to Re: low buy ins - is it worth the time?:

If you think the risk and reward is not making you the best returns, I would consider playin Satellite Tournements, this means your first win will not make you any return but your second might make you allot of money. Most people me included would not think of play a £20-£50 buy in when I win that ammount in the first tournement for a few pounds buy in, but if you are straight into the next tourement you have no choice but to play it. Just be sure you are able to play in the second tourement.
Posted by leg123

valued comment thankyou, have entered sats before with mixed success but on back of your reply specifically (is that a real word?!) pledged 6 quid into a UKOPS ME sat and came 2nd (aaargh...!) but still bagged 66 squid and nearly got a seat, did same last UKOPS on sun ME but with all-in sats (paid about 12 quid) and cashed a few hundred in ME. Always a daunting feeling playin above my bankroll and skill level but gotta be worth it as u say for winning a seat in a sat.

__harry__

In Response to Re: low buy ins - is it worth the time?:

no it isnt. the rake structure in low buy in cash games and tournaments make it impossible to beat the game. + you should move up to stakes where people respect your raises
Posted by tamas

thanks for posting a reply leg, do u mean the rake structure when u get to the latter stages in these tourneys - i.e shove/fold cos blinds so big mean that its an hour or two wasted just to be involved in 50/50 pre-flop hands as i think u mean? also the people respect your raises quote is so true as there is so little invested in the buy-ins that some folk will call/raise with anything cos the initial outlay is so small even if yr table image is strong

tamas

a little bit. the more push fold there is in a tournament the lower the edge is for the best player.

ie the best player in a slow structure deep stack tournament will have a higher ROI than the best player in a fast structure shallow stack tournament. basically because it is harder to make a huge mistake with 10bb than 100bb.

therefore the lower the roi the more the rake cuts into your winrate. i believe that the blinds go up too fast in small tournaments for your ROI to be greater than what you pay in rake in the long run.

this might not be true but it is 100% true in the micro stakes cash games where the site simply takes too much money out the games for them to be profitable

mushkarata

In Response to Re: low buy ins - is it worth the time?:

no it isnt. the rake structure in low buy in cash games and tournaments make it impossible to beat the game. + you should move up to stakes where people respect your raises
Posted by tamas

hi mushkarata here playing better players in low stakes games which I play for fun I do learn if only new players are playing you don't improve plus it feels good when you win

DANDYDON87

I feel where you're coming from. I don't really understand myself why in the odd occasion I play one of these tourneys, I see established players that are all over forum and Sky Poker TV etc. playing £1.10 Deep Stack Tourneys, which is v. unlikely to turn you a profit better than National Minimum Wage. 

I'd say switch to cash and play as many tables as you're comfortable with to build up a roll where you can play bigger buy in tourneys at the same volume...