Call or fold?

gazza127

Playing cash.  Haven't really seen any showdowns with the villain in question so no idea about general play/reads.

Just wondering what people think of my line.

Who calls the river?

gazza127	Small blind		£0.25	£0.25	£332.97
Ludacris	Big blind		£0.50	£0.75	£96.50
	Your hole cards	Q Q
XX	Call		£0.50	£1.25	£126.09
grimreap25	Raise		£2.00	£3.25	£200.87
hhamza162	Fold
gazza127	Raise		£6.50	£9.75	£326.47
Ludacris	Fold
XX	Call		£6.25	£16.00	£119.84
grimreap25	Call		£4.75	£20.75	£196.12
Flop
		9 8 8
gazza127	Bet		£11.50	£32.25	£314.97
XX	Call		£11.50	£43.75	£108.34
grimreap25	Fold
Turn
		4
gazza127	Bet		£24.00	£67.75	£290.97
XX	Call		£24.00	£91.75	£84.34
River
		7
gazza127	Check
XX	All-in		£84.34	£176.09	£0.00
gazza127	??

Lambert180

I think it's an easy fold, everything got there and flat, flat, jam is much more likely to have us crushed than to be a bluff imo.

F_Ivanovic

I fold. Also I'd probably bet slightly more on the turn.

Can only call here if you think villain is crazy or turns made hands into bluffs a lot.

Simmy4k

snap call, its the reason we checked isnt it?

hhyftrftdr

It's probably the worst river card in the deck, but I know you call

LnarinOO

clear fold readless ..! anything else would be pure SPEW .. 

nut worse card for your hand and without reads it would be a bad call imo. they could turn out to be a massive idiot who loves to blow u off hands but we dont know this so would be making assumptions... so if u call readless its because u cannot make the correct fold with an overpair ..! 

as we're playin deep id cbet more esp 3way- no need to be too balanced with this sizin imo..

as played turn sizing is good but would c/f the river readless- yes he could well be turning A9 into a bluff cos his range is uncapped but thats just a good spot for him cos how many times do we check that river with 99's or a value hand after seting up the perfect JAM sizing..?? calling would be spew..!! 

gazza127

In Response to Re: Call or fold?:

It's probably the worst river card in the deck, but I know you call
Posted by hhyftrftdr

haha yeah...

Think I called cause oppo had been quite active/relatively loose (e.g. limp utg then call a 3 bet).  I just hadnt seen oppo get to showdown often in the hour I had played.  The river is a great card to bluff.  Admittidly its a great card if your holding any draw too but I think villain bluffs a lot here with made hands knowing that i often have an overpair and probably should fold to a shove.  I tanked for the full time to make the call - I had clicked call but hadnt let go til the timer was right at the end.  I suppose I just had to know what villain had, just to take notes more than anything else.

Villain showed 107 (clubs) and I took the pot.  A lot of the time I fold here... just wanted peoples opinions on the river shove - it does seem like a polarising shove.

gazza127

In Response to Re: Call or fold?:

clear fold readless ..! anything else would be pure SPEW ..  nut worse card for your hand and without reads it would be a bad call imo. they could turn out to be a massive idiot who loves to blow u off hands but we dont know this so would be making assumptions... so if u call readless its because u cannot make the correct fold with an overpair ..!  as we're playin deep id cbet more esp 3way- no need to be too balanced with this sizin imo.. as played turn sizing is good but would c/f the river readless- yes he could well be turning A9 into a bluff cos his range is uncapped but thats just a good spot for him cos how many times do we check that river with 99's or a value hand after seting up the perfect JAM sizing..?? calling would be spew..!! 
Posted by LnarinOO

Yeah I do agree.  And 95% of the time I'd fold.  Oppo's range is undefined with a limp then calling a 3 bet pre.  However the oppo had clearly bought a number of pots in the past hour, when initial raiser had checked oppo would always bet.

Meh, bad call - but I didnt have many reads to go on as villain never got to showdown.  If im playing against villain for another hour to two then surely its better to have the read to take later pots rather than folding everytime I face a scary shove?

LnarinOO

In Response to Re: Call or fold?:

In Response to Re: Call or fold? : Yeah I do agree.  And 95% of the time I'd fold.  Oppo's range is undefined with a limp then calling a 3 bet pre.  However the oppo had clearly bought a number of pots in the past hour, when initial raiser had checked oppo would always bet. Meh, bad call - but I didnt have many reads to go on as villain never got to showdown.  If im playing against villain for another hour to two then surely its better to have the read to take later pots rather than folding everytime I face a scary shove?
Posted by gazza127

spew maybe a tad harsh as ur reasonin sounds ok- its jus the point that we're makin assumptions that villan is 'buyin' the pot when shown weakness.. we dont know this for sure and its just a guess- i no it takes sometimes along time to gather enough reads and information to have good understanding of our oopponents, but one thing we shouldnt do is guess.. take alot of low variance lines to gather reads- get to show down then u will have an idea how he thinks about the game- yea agreed its a good spot for the villan here but too high a price just to pick up some reads when there are tons of better ways-  imo gettin to showdown for cheap to gain reads is far better then value bettin big hands or flippin a coins vs an unknown's range- as it happens u were right so happy days