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Top pair then trips

calcalfoldcalcalfold
edited September 2013 in The Poker Clinic
Please advise, I jammed as I assumed they had the flush draw and notes said they probably would have called it off.
GUNNA20304 Small blind
£0.02 £0.02 £2.49
s Big blind   £0.04 £0.06 £3.42
  Your hole cards
  • A
  • Q
     
Bulgy92 Call   £0.04 £0.10 £1.42
-ACERAG- Call   £0.04 £0.14 £9.53
calcalfold Raise   £0.16 £0.30 £4.37
GUNNA20304 Call   £0.14 £0.44 £2.35
s Call   £0.12 £0.56 £3.30
Bulgy92 Call   £0.12 £0.68 £1.30
-ACERAG- Call   £0.12 £0.80 £9.41
Flop
   
  • 2
  • Q
  • 8
     
GUNNA20304 Check        
s Check        
Bulgy92 Check        
-ACERAG- Check        
calcalfold Bet   £0.32 £1.12 £4.05
GUNNA20304 Fold        
s Call   £0.32 £1.44 £2.98
Bulgy92 Call   £0.32 £1.76 £0.98
-ACERAG- Fold        
Turn
   
  • Q
     
s Check        
Bulgy92 Check        
calcalfold All-in   £4.05 £5.81 £0.00
s All-in   £2.98 £8.79 £0.00
Bulgy92 Fold        
calcalfold Unmatched bet   £1.07 £7.72 £1.07
s
 Show
  • J
  • 7
     
calcalfold Show
  • A
  • Q
     
River
   
  • 5
     
s Win Flush to the Queen £7.14   £7.14
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Comments

  • Lambert180Lambert180
    edited September 2013
    If he calls off light (with just a FD etc) then it looks fine.

    Even in this spot we have

    1 x Q for quads
    3 x A for FH
    3 x 2 for FH
    3 x 8 for FH

    So 10 outs... only about 20% with 1 card to come granted but he aint gonna have a flopped flush very often.


    EDIT: Plus what Shanxta said lol. Probably going in the region of 8x pre and more like 60-70% of the pot on the flop.
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  • SHANXTASHANXTA
    edited September 2013

    i'd also go bigger pre and bigger on the flop
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  • hhyftrftdrhhyftrftdr
    edited September 2013
    Again, your raise sizing looks way off to me.
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  • calcalfoldcalcalfold
    edited September 2013
    Why 8x pre? that is 10% of our stack.
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  • hhyftrftdrhhyftrftdr
    edited September 2013
    In Response to Re: Top pair then trips:
    Why 8x pre? that is 10% of our stack.
    Posted by calcalfold
    Exactly. You almost certainly have the best hand. Get shovelling the money in. Your bet/raise sizing looks far from optimal in the various hands I've seen you post on the forum.
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  • LnarinOOLnarinOO
    edited September 2013
    8x wouldnt be my standard esp on the btt,  but i dont play NL4- 
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  • Lambert180Lambert180
    edited September 2013
    It wouldn't be my standard but when 2 people limp... people at this level don't like to limp and then not see a flop, so they're gonna call any reasonable amount that we iso to, so might as well make it big when we'll have most of their hands crushed.
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  • unknown_usernameunknown_username
    edited September 2013
    My raise sizing at NL4 was 4xbb +1bb for every limper so it would be a standard 24p raise for me pre flop.

    I make flop bet 3/4 pot +. Probably just pot it as any hearts will call at NL4.

    As for result. Unlucky. Move on.
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  • calcalfoldcalcalfold
    edited September 2013
    From 4nl experience I strongly disagree about 8xbb.

    Unless you have a very odd table dynamic (perhaps fri or sat even) 4nlers are often happy to limp call ATC up to and including 20p. As soon as you go over 20p even by a few pence, they start to find the fold button - its really odd.

    I can justify 25-28p perhaps, but anything like that is just mega overkill and 40p - you are seriously unlikely to be called by worse pre. This is experience talking.

    Agree more pre

    Agree more flop

    Disagree 8xbb
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  • LnarinOOLnarinOO
    edited September 2013
    In Response to Re: Top pair then trips:
    It wouldn't be my standard but when 2 people limp... people at this level don't like to limp and then not see a flop, so they're gonna call any reasonable amount that we iso to, so might as well make it big when we'll have most of their hands crushed.
    Posted by Lambert180
    well you'd think in theory that'll be the case (get more money in with whats gonna be the best hand) but bettin near 2x pot means were gonna have to win the hand a high % of the time post.. prob need to win around 70% of the time which i doubt we'll ever get near vs 4 or 5 villans- i think quite often we'd get blown of the best hand or be forced to fold post flop- remember the more players in the less likely we are goin to win..! so if they never fold pre- its not neccasarily profitable to bet more..




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  • LnarinOOLnarinOO
    edited September 2013
    In Response to Re: Top pair then trips:
    From 4nl experience I strongly disagree about 8xbb. Unless you have a very odd table dynamic (perhaps fri or sat even) 4nlers are often happy to limp call ATC up to and including 20p. As soon as you go over 20p even by a few pence, they start to find the fold button - its really odd. I can justify 25-28p perhaps, but anything like that is just mega overkill and 40p - you are seriously unlikely to be called by worse pre. This is experience talking. Agree more pre Agree more flop Disagree 8xbb
    Posted by calcalfold
    i think we all agree u should have made it more pre and more on the flop - making it biggger vs fewer opponents is ok.!!- nothing wrong with the overkill there as obviously when u have the highest chance of winning u want to win the highest amount of money. but its when u could be goin multiway u need to find the amount that doesnt price too many villans in.. as played mine would have also been .25p ish 
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  • rancidrancid
    edited September 2013
    In Response to Re: Top pair then trips:
    In Response to Re: Top pair then trips : i think we all agree u should have made it more pre and more on the flop - making it biggger vs fewer opponents is ok.!!- nothing wrong with the overkill there as obviously when u have the highest chance of winning u want to win the highest amount of money. but its when u could be goin multiway u need to find the amount that doesnt price too many villans in.. as played mine would have also been .25p ish 
    Posted by LnarinOO

    ^this

    24p+ is good
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