Turned full house, would you flat call or 3 bet shove the river?

SUPERSNEDD

Don't often post in the clinic, but wondered what the general consensus was on this hand.

This is the £2k Guaranteed Cash Game and we are in the last three quarter of the tournament, I don't have any reads on this guy as I had just joined the table and nothing in his notes.  My question is would you flat the raise or 3 bet shove?

PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalanceSUPERSNEDDSmall blind 50.0050.0024247.50smudge2511Big blind 100.00150.0043542.50 Your hole cards66   memfnoFold    mould03Raise 240.00390.0013800.00paul10Fold    SUPERSNEDDCall 190.00580.0024057.50smudge2511Call 140.00720.0043402.50Flop  252   SUPERSNEDDBet 360.001080.0023697.50smudge2511Fold    mould03Call 360.001440.0013440.00Turn  6   SUPERSNEDDBet 720.002160.0022977.50mould03Call 720.002880.0012720.00River  K   SUPERSNEDDBet 2880.005760.0020097.50mould03Raise 7000.0012760.005720.00SUPERSNEDDAll-in 20097.5032857.500.00mould03All-in 5720.0038577.500.00SUPERSNEDDUnmatched bet 10257.5028320.0010257.50      

hhyftrftdr

I'm shoving that river all day long. Hardly anything beats us.

I'm gonna guess he rivered ya.

Lambert180

Yeah I snap jam, if he has 22/KK then that's just pretty disgusting.

GELDY

concensus building to shove

there are more hands that you beat ie AA, 55, A2s that play the same way

did have to think about it though

rancid

why donk flop

u pot river and vill is pretty excited about it


suppose vill can have 2x, 55,AA

only KK,22 so get em in

then cry

LnarinOO

u dont need reads to play this hand

LnarinOO

u dont need reads to play this hand

unknown_username

HI S

Don't think you have a choice tbh. From the turn you must think that you're betting for value and have done that successfully. Its no use shoving as the effective stack size is so big you may lose value. River comes and he shows a lot of interset but as others have said there are still hands you beat that would play similarly. Dont really see anything that you've done wrong here imo. Not nice if it was the river king that beat you though...

SUPERSNEDD

Thanks all for the advice, looks as though most agree it's a snap shove when villain raises on the river.

For Rancid, I donk flop to try and take it down on the flop or if I hit my set on the turn or river I'll have inflated the pot, hoping to stack him off.  I don't always play it this way as I like to mix it up, player dependent.

As it happens he did have KK, but I think he would do the same with AA, A2, AK, 55, but I reckon I'm doing the same if that situation arises again, just wondered if anybody would play it safe and just flat his raise on the river, but over the long run that would only lose value.

F_Ivanovic

OK I've seen the results now but I'm posting the same advice I would have before seeing the results.

Personally I think it's quite close but think shoving is fine and think we'd need reads on villain to do otherwise. That being said villains line does look very strong. When people POT river it's very indicitive of a polarised range; either NUT hands or bluffs. So therefore when villain raises river to a substantial sizing it follows that he must have an equally nut hand to do so. I know that if I was villain in this hand my raising range OTR would be 22, KK and 55 (there's probably more than enough 2x or 34 into your range to raise 55 for value) but any 2x or 34 that I had I'm just flatting. When shoved on I'm obviously not thrilled calling off with 55 but with pot odds I don't think I could fold.

Since there's 3 combos of 55 and 4 combos of KK and 22 it would seem that shoving in this instance was slightly dubious and in a standard tournament where tournament life was important I think I'm more inclined to just flat. But in this particular tournament where it's pretty much a cash game (minus no reload) we should just be making the most ev decision and against an unknown who could be raising 2x or 34 OTR then we have to shove. (I don't however think many players at all are playing a hand like AA or AK this way)

rancid

In Response to Re: Turned full house, would you flat call or 3 bet shove the river?:

Thanks all for the advice, looks as though most agree it's a snap shove when villain raises on the river. For Rancid, I donk flop to try and take it down on the flop or if I hit my set on the turn or river I'll have inflated the pot, hoping to stack him off.  I don't always play it this way as I like to mix it up, player dependent. As it happens he did have KK, but I think he would do the same with AA, A2, AK, 55, but I reckon I'm doing the same if that situation arises again, just wondered if anybody would play it safe and just flat his raise on the river, but over the long run that would only lose value.
Posted by SUPERSNEDD

The only issue I have with the donk is....better never folds
if vill has better your inflating pot for villian


what if vill raises with worse.....