NL 20- What is the best play?

robbie1992

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
RONALDO80	Small blind		£0.10	£0.10	£7.19
dontazeme	Big blind		£0.20	£0.30	£19.10
	Your hole cards	Q Q
james84	Call		£0.20	£0.50	£30.72
kshatriya	Call		£0.20	£0.70	£53.67
robbie1992	Raise		£1.40	£2.10	£20.66
x	Raise		£4.00	£6.10	£16.00
RONALDO80	Fold
dontazeme	Fold
james84	Fold
kshatriya	Fold
robbie1992	Call		£2.60	£8.70	£18.06
Flop
		8 10 8
robbie1992	Check
x	Bet		£3.80	£12.50	£12.20
robbie1992	Call		£3.80	£16.30	£14.26
Turn
		5
robbie1992	Check
x	All-in		£12.20	£28.50	£0.00
robbie1992	Fold
x	Muck
x	Win		£15.48		£15.48
x	Return		£12.20	£0.82	£27.68

I Think I played it the worst possiable  way but where did I go wrong? The player is a reg at 20nl, but capable of barrelling, prob classed as a TAG.

PRE: I raise which is fine , I then get a 3 bet on the button , which even though it is on the button I think it is strong. I don't think I can fold here, but do I 4 bet or flat.  The 4 bet makes me feel I have to call a shove with my hand pre, so I flat and re access on the flop.

Flop: Good flop but the hands I feared pre flop are still beating me, no point raising as ill fold bluffs and worse hands and get shoves from better.  Call and get to showdown is the plan.

Turn: He has now 4 bet my utg+1 raise, and has bet flop and turn when I have checked to him.  wOULD he barrel again with AK, AQ,AJ, JJ, 99? when a blank has come? unlikely and the hands I think he has pre( AK AQ AA KK JJ 10) now mostly beat me, so there not a massive range I beat, but the c/c way I have plan the hand means he has some bluffs in his range here that he shoves the turn with .

Where can I gone wrong, and what might have been a better way for me to play the hand, thanks.

Lambert180

It all really depends on the villian cos you'll see complete polar opposites in terms of how people play at 20NL... you'll see some maniacs where this is a really standard call down and some complete nits where you'll have the worst hand 100% of the time.

Readless, flatting the 3bet is probably better, we keep in all his 3b bluffs and just his weaker value hands that he 3bets. We can't 4bet/fold but if we 4bet and get shipped on (or even get a call) against most players you'll be drawing to 2 outs a lot of the time.

Your raise is from the Cut-off, not UTG+1... the limp was UTG, the next limp was UTG+1 and you're the CO (the one before the button).

Hard to say without knowing anything about the opponent but against most you probably played it as perfect as you could. You can still be ahead on the flop of all his light 3bets and just weaker value hands that he's 3bet but most will just check/give up on the turn. Only value hand I think we beat is JJ but there's lots more that beat us.

rancid

don't flat pre if ya folding flop>>>>>>>>>


if ya ahead I'll ship u £20

robbie1992

Okay judging from the comments it seems like the fold was definatly correct against some players I still think I have to call down but in willing to accept that he has the goods when his play is this strong.

Thanks rancid and lambert.

NColley

You iso to 7bb.., if you're vs numpties and iso raise to this size everytime its fine but to a reg that just screams premium. Tag reg then comes over the top with a 20bb 3bet (lol), knowing that you're playing a strong range. Tag regs are prob not bluffing in this spot very often. Its going to be AA/KK, some combos of AK and maybe JJ once in a while.

If you're not planning on committing on flops like this I'd suggest folding preflop in this instance. You're not deep enough to call this sizing for a pure setmine.

Really though theres no need to iso to 7x vs two limpers lol... with this sizing you can't have many bluffs in your range.

robbie1992

In Response to Re: NL 20- What is the best play?:

You iso to 7bb.., if you're vs numpties and iso raise to this size everytime its fine but to a reg that just screams premium. Tag reg then comes over the top with a 20bb 3bet (lol), knowing that you're playing a strong range. Tag regs are prob not bluffing in this spot very often. Its going to be AA/KK, some combos of AK and maybe JJ once in a while. If you're not planning on committing on flops like this I'd suggest folding preflop in this instance. You're not deep enough to call this sizing for a pure setmine. Really though theres no need to iso to 7x vs two limpers lol... with this sizing you can't have many bluffs in your range.
Posted by NColley

Yep my table as  lagging and I nearly timed out that's why it's so big, but tbh on that table I'm happy to go to around 6x as I'm confident I'll get calls and with a hand like qq I'm happy for them to call.

Hmm okay but a fold to buttons 3bet seems a bit week with a hand as strong as qq, I think it's a situation where I can't play it the same every time. 

F_Ivanovic

In Response to Re: NL 20- What is the best play?:

Hmm okay but a fold to buttons 3bet seems a bit week with a hand as strong as qq, I think it's a situation where I can't play it the same every time. 
Posted by robbie1992

It doesn't matter if it seems weak it's fine to exploitively fold because we're exploiting the fact that reg is playing exploitively by 3betting this size here with only QQ+ and AK.

CraigSG1

I honestly cant see what you did wrong. I would love someone to explain a better way but if we are thinking long term then again I cant see whats wrong. I 100% agree also with your thinking. 

Pre: If you reraise allin your only getting called by AA,KK and AK (although not all the time). You are folding the vast majority of hands you beat like you said.

Post: Again, your correct. Nothing has really changed so c/c is the superior play. Keeping in worse hands and not commiting yourself when you are behind.

Turn: Again, played perfect. AK/AQ are probably checking behind for a free card, JJ also because they fear being behind and by going allin I dont think he expects you to fold so again another perfectly good reason to show you you are against AA,KK.