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Whaaaaaaaaaaaaat nowwwww??

IDONKCALLUIDONKCALLU
edited September 2013 in The Poker Clinic
davylar24Small blind £0.10£0.10£59.45ShadowDJSBig blind £0.20£0.30£15.80 Your hole cardsQQ   tatoheadRaise £0.60£0.90£20.70RyanC7Fold    SparkyKeefFold    IDONKCALLURaise £1.60£2.50£38.47davylar24Call £1.50£4.00£57.95ShadowDJSFold    tatoheadRaise £3.60£7.60£17.10IDONKCALLUCall £2.60£10.20£35.87davylar24Call £2.60£12.80£55.35Flop  934   davylar24Check    tatoheadBet £12.80£25.60£4.30
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Comments

  • Lambert180Lambert180
    edited September 2013
    Easy fold imo cos I know the villian (which is why you should block names out).

    Why did you flat the 4bet? Was it to try and setmine?

    What do you think he 4bets with after opening UTG and seeing the action that happened afterwards? It's probably something like AA/KK...

    If you're lucky he's 4betting AKs but doubt he's ever full potting that flop with AKs and he probably never has a worse OP than you so just fold.

    FWIW, I think against this opponent you can fold pre.
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  • IDONKCALLUIDONKCALLU
    edited September 2013
    well the 5 bet is soooooo tiny i thoght he has ak or a very gd hand so called to see what he bets on this kinda flop the bet is so big

    its either im crushed or he has ak diamonds so i folded 
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  • IDONKCALLUIDONKCALLU
    edited September 2013
    u can just fold qq to extra £2 and i didnt fell comftable gin as with hes 5 bet so small  obv he has summit big so u could say i was set mining i know its bad but
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  • Lambert180Lambert180
    edited September 2013
    Small 4bet generally = I don't want you to fold.

    99.9% of people won't ever be 4betting light at 20NL

    And when he has AKs he isn't gonna be thinking 'plz don't fold' he probably wants you to fold and probably wouldn't even 4bet anyway
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  • Lambert180Lambert180
    edited September 2013
    Firstly, he's 4bet, not 5bet.

    He opened, you 3bet, someone flatted, then he 4bet and you can fold with decent reads.

    It's £2.60 you called first of all and he only has £17 left so even if you could say that you 100% will ALWAYS have the best hand when you flop a set and 100% will always stack him.... it's still a losing play. Add in times when he finds a fold with KK on AQx or beats you set over and set and it's no where near good enough a price to call to setmine.

    Nothing wrong with folding QQ pre if you're against an absolute rock where you can narrow their range down SO much to basically only hands that crush you.
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  • IDONKCALLUIDONKCALLU
    edited September 2013
    im not to know hes gonna bet so big on flop any smaller id call down or he could still check the flop ;) 


    thing i dont get is why would aa or kk bet so big on this flop they would bet alot smaller for value surely thats why i had my head scratching 
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  • Lambert180Lambert180
    edited September 2013
    Yeh but even if he does check the flop, you're basically hoping he has AK, just checks down 3 streets and doesn't hit an A or K along the way cos he aint putting another penny in the pot with A-high.

    Cos he's 3way, not a very good player and just wants the money in ASAP.
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  • DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH
    edited September 2013
    Fold kings here imo.
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  • F_IvanovicF_Ivanovic
    edited September 2013
    lol @ ridiculous flop sizing. Wouldn't fold KK here because KK has so much better equity vs his range than QQ does. KK smashes QQ and beats AK whereas QQ is flipping or crushed.
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  • Lambert180Lambert180
    edited September 2013
    Yeah but villian has AK here close to 0% after full potting the flop.

    He has AA or KK, so us holding KK means there's a super slim chance of chopping or we're crushed
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  • F_IvanovicF_Ivanovic
    edited September 2013
    In Response to Re: Whaaaaaaaaaaaaat nowwwww??:
    Yeah but villian has AK here close to 0% after full potting the flop. He has AA or KK, so us holding KK means there's a super slim chance of chopping or we're crushed
    Posted by Lambert180
    He could have QQ though. And AKdd (if we don't have the Kd) - he may have AA more than QQ or AKdd but against his range we still should have enough to call. Also QQ might even be more likely since AA might go smaller as there are less turn cards it doesn't like. QQ doesn't like K or A hence why he might be betting big with it.

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  • Lambert180Lambert180
    edited September 2013
    But first of all, we have QQ so there's ONE combo of QQ left in the deck.

    But apart from all that, the villian just isn't opening UTG then 4betting with AK imo, and probably not QQ either.

    If you call this against this villian you'll be drawing to 2 outs so often it's painful
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  • F_IvanovicF_Ivanovic
    edited September 2013
    Are we really giving him a range of only AA when he 4bets? 
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  • SlipwaterSlipwater
    edited September 2013
    In Response to Re: Whaaaaaaaaaaaaat nowwwww??:
    Are we really giving him a range of only AA when he 4bets? 
    Posted by F_Ivanovic
    As Lambert said, he knows the player so it is perfectly feasible his only 4-bet range is AA. I think there are a lot of lower level players with the same mentality. I do however disagree with Lambert about AK – I have seen a number of players 4-bet this hand at the lower limits. A lot of them think it’s the cat’s bananas, and yes, a lot of these players will pot the low flop too, even though it’s just ace high.
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  • Lambert180Lambert180
    edited September 2013
    I'm not making my points based on what I think 'low level' players do, this isn't a generalisation, it's purely based specifically on THIS opponent cos I've played him a lot. This is why you shouldn't post villian's names really cos people end up giving their own reads or at least it's there at the back of their mind. IDCU prob just posts these hands to get reads anyway cos he never seems to have any of his own ;)

    His 4bet range isn't just AA.... it's gonna be AA/KK and maaaaybe AKs. Even if we stretch it to include QQ, in this case we have to say it's ridic unlikely cos we have 2 queens in our hand.

    So there are....

    6 combos of AA
    6 combos of KK
    4 combos of AKs
    1 combo of QQ

    So even if he takes the same line with his entire 4bet range, we are still crushed 12 out of 17 times and the time his AKs is AKdd then we're only basically flipping.

    So even if he does as I said above it's really bad to continue but in reailty I don't think he's ever betting pot with AKhh, AKss, AKcc and probably not even AKdd.... so it's even worse.

    EDITED COURTESY OF BORIN LONER
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  • SlipwaterSlipwater
    edited September 2013
    In Response to Re: Whaaaaaaaaaaaaat nowwwww??:
    IDCU prob just posts these hands to get reads anyway cos he never seems to have any of his own ;)
    Posted by Lambert180
    Now that is funny :)
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  • BorinLonerBorinLoner
    edited September 2013
    "...8 combos of AA
    8 combos of KK..."


    Lambert, there are only 6 combinations for paired hands: E.g. AsAc, AsAd, AsAh, AcAd, AcAh, AhAd.

    Don't know if mods will like this link:

    Poker Hand Combinations
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  • BigHawk89BigHawk89
    edited September 2013
    Your almost 99.99% beat here with this oppo.

    I know its tight folding pre with QQ but what are you really hoping for? 9xx flop to fold? You calling IP looks like you have a pair and is he really gonna bet full pot into two players with AK.

    Stop telling everyone what you did before the dicussion starts lol
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  • Lambert180Lambert180
    edited September 2013
    In Response to Re: Whaaaaaaaaaaaaat nowwwww??:
    "...8 combos of AA 8 combos of KK..." Lambert, there are only 6 combinations for paired hands: E.g. AsAc, AsAd, AsAh, AcAd, AcAh, AhAd. Don't know if mods will like this link: Poker Hand Combinations
    Posted by BorinLoner
    Oops!

    We're still crushed with 6 combos of each mind :p
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  • rancidrancid
    edited September 2013
    surely the reason you call pre is the same reason you don't fold flop





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  • IDONKCALLUIDONKCALLU
    edited September 2013
    the bet had me suspicious    way i see it i am only ahead of ak of diamonds thats it   

    anyway of to casino now peace out 
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