Optimal Play v LAG?

gazza127

Player is active.  He three bets quite a bit pre.  He definitely raises into draws and is capable of bluffing down streets.  He's also capable of doing this with complete airballs as well as hands with equity.

This hand.  I think the flop is best to just call in position.  My question is the turn... do I flat and let him bluff off another street with his complete airballs/missed draws or do I raise and charge him for the times he actually has a hand?

apj99	Small blind		£0.50	£0.50	£42.79
Villain	Big blind		£1.00	£1.50	£239.46
	Your hole cards	A 6
CharlieF29	Fold
gazza127	Raise		£3.00	£4.50	£327.22
manibia14	Fold
apj99	Fold
Villain	Call		£2.00	£6.50	£237.46
Flop
		J 2 10
Villain	Check
gazza127	Bet		£3.25	£9.75	£323.97
Villain	Raise		£10.00	£19.75	£227.46
gazza127	Call		£6.75	£26.50	£317.22
Turn
		7
Villain	Bet		£16.00	£42.50	£211.46
gazza127	??

LARSON7

I would smooth call, and let him bluff the river given we have position to keep in his bluffs.

The pots going to be £60 quid, And we are sure he is barreling the river right?

DOHHHHHHH

Gazza, you have at least 300xbb every time u post a cash hand in here!!!!!

How!?!?!?

Pretty standard flat here in position.

Think we might have him coolered here, despite your reads that he doesn't have to be strong, he looks it!

Flat, pray for a river blank, then go big otr!

Fwiw I bet flop abit bigger this deep.

Jac35

I'm raising here. I want to play for stacks.

He doesn't seem too concerned with your flat on the flop and so may well actually have a hand. If he has a draw we need to start shovelling now.

If we flat here and he is barrelling with air, what are we getting on the river £30/40?

Think I'm taking the chance that he does either have a hand right now or a draw and is willing to come along with us,

£60

gazza127

Haha DOHHHHHHH.  I dunno.  I guess i just get in these kind of spots slightly deeper for some reason.  Trust me its not always like this!

So now I know you play it like I did (which is nice).  The river pairs the board and he's happy to barrel.  FWIW i think he barrels every river card.

Now what do I do?  Do I raise for value or simply call as he has potentially housed up.

apj99	Small blind		£0.50	£0.50	£42.79
Villain	Big blind		£1.00	£1.50	£239.46
	Your hole cards	A 6
CharlieF29	Fold
gazza127	Raise		£3.00	£4.50	£327.22
manibia14	Fold
apj99	Fold
Villain	Call		£2.00	£6.50	£237.46
Flop
		J 2 10
Villain	Check
gazza127	Bet		£3.25	£9.75	£323.97
Villain	Raise		£10.00	£19.75	£227.46
gazza127	Call		£6.75	£26.50	£317.22
Turn
		7
Villain	Bet		£16.00	£42.50	£211.46
gazza127	Call		£16.00	£58.50	£301.22
River
		2
Villain	Bet		£28.00	£86.50	£183.46
gazza127	???

gazza127

In Response to Re: Optimal Play v LAG?:

I'm raising here. I want to play for stacks. He doesn't seem too concerned with your flat on the flop and so may well actually have a hand. If he has a draw we need to start shovelling now. If we flat here and he is barrelling with air, what are we getting on the river £30/40? Think I'm taking the chance that he does either have a hand right now or a draw and is willing to come along with us, £60
Posted by Jac35

Aaaannndd now i've seen this.  Maybe I shouldn't have posted what I did before the debate was settled!

DOHHHHHHH

Comfortable raising the river.

We have to have a lot of strong hands in our range, yet he goes for a small bet size, less than half the pot.

Looks like he may have a lower flush quite a lot, and trying to get called by JT, AJ/KJ etc.

He's probably bet/folding himself looking at the size.

Like to raise/fold river to about £79ish.

(fwiw I was unsure about wether raise/folding the river is best, but you left the name in 2nd time round and I'm very confidently raise folding the river v this guy. Confident that he can bet/call worse sometimes, and also that if he bet/shoves over our raise, he's always ahead)

LARSON7

In Response to Re: Optimal Play v LAG?:

I'm raising here. I want to play for stacks. He doesn't seem too concerned with your flat on the flop and so may well actually have a hand. If he has a draw we need to start shovelling now. If we flat here and he is barrelling with air, what are we getting on the river £30/40? Think I'm taking the chance that he does either have a hand right now or a draw and is willing to come along with us, £60
Posted by Jac35

Like your argument, but it's a tough one.

If he is out and out bluffing we need to let him barrell again (or we are getting no more value from the hand) which i would imagine a lot of the time s/he is  in this spot.

Ok if they have a hand set, or lower flush, then we can definatly be missing out on value by smooth calling.

I just feel given reads they are bluffing here a lot of the time.

With the smooth call, sets it up to get good value on the river, and if they are bluffing atleast they will prob stick in another bet.

gazza127

In Response to Re: Optimal Play v LAG?:

Comfortable raising the river. We have to have a lot of strong hands in our range, yet he goes for a small bet size, less than half the pot. Looks like he may have a lower flush quite a lot, and trying to get called by JT, AJ/KJ etc. Like to raise/fold river to about £89ish. (fwiw I was unsure about wether raise/folding the river is best, but you left the name in 2nd time round and I'm very confidently raise folding the river v this guy. Confident that he can bet/call worse, and also that if he bet/shoves over our raise, he's always ahead)
Posted by DOHHHHHHH

Yeah that was a mistake.  Took his name out hoping no1 saw... too late!

Still like the smooth call on the flop? Lol.

I did raise the river... think I only went to £65-70ish though... so maybe it looked like I wanted to be called too much.  He folded pretty quick.

LARSON7

Max Value, well played!

hhyftrftdr

How do you think the villain perceives you? This might indicate which turn line (call/raise) is best to take.

Jac35

In Response to Re: Optimal Play v LAG?:

Max Value, well played!
Posted by LARSON7

Not being deliberately contrary but maybe we didn't get max value?

Let's say we do raise the turn and the villain has KQ for example, from the description given he's going to call.

His river bluff is now going to have to be much bigger.

Just a thought

gazza127

In Response to Re: Optimal Play v LAG?:

How do you think the villain perceives you? This might indicate which line (call/raise) is best to take.
Posted by hhyftrftdr

He's seen me call a reraise on the flop then fold the turn once or twice in about an hour.  I dunno.  I think he see's me as tight aggressive as everytime i've got to showdown i've had it.  So I think calling is probably best given that as it keeps in my straight and spade draws and single pairs which will be hard to call a 3rd barrel on the river.

DOHHHHHHH

In Response to Re: Optimal Play v LAG?:

In Response to Re: Optimal Play v LAG? : Yeah that was a mistake.  Took his name out hoping no1 saw... too late! Still like the smooth call on the flop? Lol. I did raise the river... think I only went to £65-70ish though... so maybe it looked like I wanted to be called too much.  He folded pretty quick.
Posted by gazza127

Think this is a better size than I suggested tbh. 

If we think he's bet folding (I did) it makes sense to go smaller, some people (I) just can't resist calling even if their plan is to bet/fold when they see themselves getting great odds!

wp all streets imo.

LnarinOO

massively prefer raising the turn.. keeps bluffs in our range- if were never raisin here were never bluffing - and playing deep like this your not playing at all balanced -

you have to raise the turn to maximise your potential - so what if he could be bluffing and may not continue, as long as we 'could be bluffing' allows us to play for stacks with the nuts when he's the non-beliver.. EASY RAISE TURN SITU CUMMMMON..!!!!!!!!

F_Ivanovic

Yeah I'm raising turn here all day. We have plenty of worse hands that we can just call down with as bluff catchers. Other hands I would raise turn with including K high flushes, KQ (with one spade), AsTx, Q9 (with a spade)

DOHHHHHHH

Looks like I'm very wrong again!

Gulp.

rancid

can only raise turn if you can legit rep a wider range, if vill thinks we never raise turn with bluffs/worse than flushes then abso no point in raising turn


a/p raise river