20NL - 4bet Pot BvB w/ JJ

Lambert180

Got quite a bit of history with DTM, we've ran a fair few big bluffs V each other and made some light (probably spewy) calls downs at times. Particularly BvB it can get messy so happy to GII here if he 5bets me.

I'm gonna post the 3 streets in stages to discuss each individually...

I'm 4betting small as it'll be cheaper when I need to get away from my 4bet bluffs and it also increases the chance of him peeling wider and gives him more FE to potentially do something spewy but what dya think of the 4b sizing?

Thoughts on flop sizing? Agan, I go smaller = cheaper when I'm continuing with my 4b bluffs and encourages calls from a wider range when I have a hand, when it'll be easy to get 100xBB in by the river in a 4b pot.

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
Lambert180	Small blind		£0.10	£0.10	£21.51
Donttelmum	Big blind		£0.20	£0.30	£42.93
	Your hole cards	J J
25075424	Fold
dannybo333	Fold
flower11	Fold
Lambert180	Raise		£0.50	£0.80	£21.01
Donttelmum	Raise		£2.00	£2.80	£40.93
Lambert180	Raise		£3.70	£6.50	£17.31
Donttelmum	Call		£2.10	£8.60	£38.83
Flop
		9 7 3
Lambert180	Bet		£3.95	£12.55	£13.36

gazza127

Plan is to shove turn if called?

Looks good to me so far.

BorinLoner

You've 4-bet to £4.30 over a £2.20 3-bet, right?

An 11x 3-bet 100BBeff is quite chunky. If I was going to 4-bet, I might still go a touch bigger than 21.5x, though. It's tough because much bigger and we're looking committed. I'd probably be going to 23 or 24x. Nit-picking? Probably, but if we're confident he can peel this 4-bet light then why not let him put that little but more in? No big problems with it, though.

Flop sizing is dependent on the type of range we're giving DTM at this point. I think we're probably a bit big at £3.95 on a fairly dry flop, with the SPR as it is. I think £3 would be best. Again, probably just nit-picking and we don't want to see an overcard on the turn too cheaply. Just answer which hands we expect him to peel here and which hands he's going to raise. It's not a great flop for him to bluff or semi-bluff on, after all. I guess he could float a lot but there aren't a lot of great turn cards to rep given respective perceived ranges.


On the turn... oh, wait a minute.

LnarinOO

im supprised that theres 3 streets to show!!  so as far as i could see this going he flats, turn goes check check - then u must be c/calling river to get called by his entire range.. the only card that would make me check the turn would be an ace but it doesnt really matter if it was a deuce given the dynamic- id have to give him a strong range pre as being , id imagine a compentant player, so dislike any flat with SC or small pairs- that would jsu be horrible-

sizing is standard for 100bb deep - my guess is that you chck/called river and lost and were losing all or most the way??

Lambert180

Sigh, really should have wrote down the hand ID... just took me ages to find it again.

Reason I posted this hand is cos I think I blew up mid-hand. Happy with line to this point... then not so much from this point onwards lol.

Ok so turn decision....

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
Lambert180	Small blind		£0.10	£0.10	£21.51
Donttelmum	Big blind		£0.20	£0.30	£42.93
	Your hole cards	J J
25075424	Fold
dannybo333	Fold
flower11	Fold
Lambert180	Raise		£0.50	£0.80	£21.01
Donttelmum	Raise		£2.00	£2.80	£40.93
Lambert180	Raise		£3.70	£6.50	£17.31
Donttelmum	Call		£2.10	£8.60	£38.83
Flop
		9 7 3
Lambert180	Bet		£3.95	£12.55	£13.36
Donttelmum	Call		£3.95	£16.50	£34.88
Turn
		A

LnarinOO

jus t comes down to river decion imo - betting here would be incorrect for both u and DTM- id expect him to float flop with all his aces and seeing as theres only one bet left no point him letting u hero fold the turn.. he'd have to play aces and non-aces the same so if he has AJ i see him checking behind here also - 

the river comes down to his enitre 4bet calling range and without a HUD this is goin to be difficult for us but as u have the most history should have a good idea of his frequencies. he shouldnt be calling wide enough pre for this to be a call as id expect him to show up with an ace too often but i dont know that- 

ill carry on my guess and give him AQ A/J (which should be an easy 5bet for value imo) 

Donttelmum

I'm dying to know what I had!

Lambert180

In Response to Re: 20NL - 4bet Pot BvB w/ JJ:

I'm dying to know what I had!
Posted by Donttelmum

So am I!! We didn't make it to showdown.

LnarinOO

booooooo    anti climax

rancid

I find it really funny that your going to keep it small knowing vill is going to very possibly flat the 4 bet and your also going to be 4 bet bluffing someone who is happy to call down pre/post light



just going to re quote you

Thoughts on flop sizing? Agan, I go smaller = cheaper for him when I'm continuing with my 4b bluffs and encourages calls from a wider range when I don't  have a hand, when it'll be easy to get 100xBB in by the river in a 4b pot.


4 bet pot means at 100bb deep your going to easily get 100bb over line post anyway so your pretty much commited to your line once you 4 bet pre regardless of sizing so you got to be sure your not bluffing too much otherwise your going to spew.