advice please on punishing them who trap

craigcu12

at the minute I have been having problems villians have been taking advantage of my aggro play. but at the same time they have also being fold a lot of my bets post flop thinking I will be holding a hand.

the trouble is that with the nl4 tables villians are so loose they hardly fold anything preflop so it makings taking advantage of post flop folding a big risk.

the question I have is what size should I do on the flop and turn that will punish them who decided to trap me.

danyal	Small blind		£0.02	£0.02	£6.94
craigcu12	Big blind		£0.04	£0.06	£3.11
	Your hole cards	A A
x	Call		£0.04	£0.10	£5.88
bobbyd190	Fold
fireman25	Call		£0.04	£0.14	£3.31
mike1959	Fold
danyal	Call		£0.02	£0.16	£6.92
craigcu12	Raise		£0.16	£0.32	£2.95
x	Call		£0.16	£0.48	£5.72
fireman25	Fold
danyal	Call		£0.16	£0.64	£6.76
Flop
		8 2 Q
danyal	Check
craigcu12	Bet		£0.24	£0.88	£2.71
x	Call		£0.24	£1.12	£5.48
danyal	Fold
Turn
		9
craigcu12	Bet		£1.12	£2.24	£1.59
x	Call		£1.12	£3.36	£4.36
River
		7
craigcu12	Bet		£0.60	£3.96	£0.99
x	All-in		£4.36	£8.32	£0.00
craigcu12	All-in		£0.99	£9.31	£0.00
x	Unmatched bet		£2.77	£6.54	£2.77
craigcu12	Show	A A
x	Show	10 J
x	Win	Straight to the Queen	£6.04		£8.81

this hand might have been a cool down but it was the fact he checked top set on what was a very wet board that made me question my jam. so I am starting to think I might as well keep sets the same size as my flush draws TP TK premium pairs and dry board cbet because if the villians are going to always call me I would much rather punish them who trap me than charge those who chase.

nutsy11	Small blind		£0.02	£0.02	£6.71
Googly69	Big blind		£0.04	£0.06	£1.51
	Your hole cards	8 8
x	Raise		£0.16	£0.22	£2.94
Amber123	Call		£0.16	£0.38	£0.58
craigcu12	Call		£0.16	£0.54	£3.56
smkace10	Call		£0.16	£0.70	£2.46
nutsy11	Fold
Googly69	Fold
Flop
		J 8 Q
x	Bet		£0.35	£1.05	£2.59
Amber123	All-in		£0.58	£1.63	£0.00
craigcu12	Call		£0.58	£2.21	£2.98
smkace10	Call		£0.58	£2.79	£1.88
x	Call		£0.23	£3.02	£2.36
Turn
		4
x	Check
craigcu12	All-in		£2.98	£6.00	£0.00
smkace10	All-in		£1.88	£7.88	£0.00
x	All-in		£2.36	£10.24	£0.00
craigcu12	Unmatched bet		£0.62	£9.62	£0.62
x	Show	Q Q
Amber123	Show	10 10
craigcu12	Show	8 8
smkace10	Show	6 7
River
		Q
x	Win	Four Queens	£8.89		£8.89

even flush flush draws I feel are better of to just do them small bets because their just isn't enough semi bluffing or decent betting.

nowandthen	Small blind		£0.02	£0.02	£8.84
fenlandpat	Big blind		£0.04	£0.06	£1.68
	Your hole cards	Q K
cuzza64	Fold
LARSON7	Fold
Poplar134	Raise		£0.08	£0.14	£2.64
craigcu12	Raise		£0.24	£0.38	£2.69
nowandthen	Fold
fenlandpat	Fold
Poplar134	Call		£0.16	£0.54	£2.48
Flop
		4 10 J
Poplar134	Check
craigcu12	Bet		£0.41	£0.95	£2.28
Poplar134	Call		£0.41	£1.36	£2.07
Turn
		2
Poplar134	Check
craigcu12	All-in		£2.28	£3.64	£0.00
Poplar134	All-in		£2.07	£5.71	£0.00
craigcu12	Unmatched bet		£0.21	£5.50	£0.21
Poplar134	Show	K J
craigcu12	Show	Q K
River
		K
Poplar134	Win	Two Pairs, Kings and Jacks	£5.08		£5.08

what I then think will happen is they will start doing more of this and I will then have the easy decision folding, hero calling or shipping and if I loose I will feel more relaxed knowing I have not did all the work for the villians.

Jaguar66	Small blind		£0.02	£0.02	£1.04
craigcu12	Big blind		£0.04	£0.06	£4.59
	Your hole cards	K J
nowandthen	Call		£0.04	£0.10	£6.29
fenlandpat	Call		£0.04	£0.14	£2.60
cuzza64	Raise		£0.12	£0.26	£5.23
Jaguar66	Call		£0.10	£0.36	£0.94
craigcu12	Call		£0.08	£0.44	£4.51
nowandthen	Call		£0.08	£0.52	£6.21
fenlandpat	Call		£0.08	£0.60	£2.52
Flop
		A 10 K
Jaguar66	Check
craigcu12	Check
nowandthen	Bet		£0.28	£0.88	£5.93
fenlandpat	Fold
x	Raise		£1.15	£2.03	£4.08
Jaguar66	Fold
craigcu12	Raise		£2.74	£4.77	£1.77
nowandthen	Fold
x	Call		£1.59	£6.36	£2.49
Turn
		5
craigcu12	All-in		£1.77	£8.13	£0.00
x	Call		£1.77	£9.90	£0.72
craigcu12	Show	K J
x	Show	Q J
River
		K
x	Win	Straight to the Ace	£9.15		£9.87

Phantom66

Hand 1

Your pf raise is a little small - AA is the nutz preflop but we really only want 1 or 2 customers postflop. You were lucky to only get 2 callers - I would have made it 20/24.

Technically your opponent didn't trap you - they just got lucky and overtook you. Trapping is a term for playing a very strong hand slowly (checking and calling) for deception in the hope that opponent will put more in the pot with a weaker hand or bluff.

Your flop bet is too low.

It is a good flop for you - cant be worrying about sets - but random 2 pairs and flush draws are always possible with multiple callers.

When you are ahead you want to add value into the pot but keep your customers in the hand - without giving them good odds to hit their draws. Tricky balance to achieve.


Post flop action should be measured in relation to the size of pot and stacks. You have bet approx. 1/3 of pot.

You want to make flush draws pay to draw so 3/4 pot would be better there. In this case you probably take pot down but longer term you are keeping plenty of Qx hands interested and no real need to slow down unless 3rd suit comes next or you get reraised.

As played 9 comes on river giving the str8. Your opponent has hit 1 of 4 cards left in deck to outdraw you. You got unlucky although a bigger post flop bet should have got rid of them. Players who call for "gutshot" straights are your ideal customer - unfortunately they do get lucky sometimes.

Your turn bet is fine pot sized - shouldn't be worried about the str8 - flush hasn't appeared although the 9 would start to worry me about more possible 2 pair hands or straight draws.

River bet is small is this a stop bet? - personally I am checking here as the calls on previous 2 streets have me thinking my AA probably aren't good anymore and that trips or 2 pair are out there.

I would check/call - whether I call an all-in depends on what I know about opponent.


Hand 2 cooler set over set when money goes in - don't mind the call pre as long as you realise you are looking for a set - once you have it you want your stack in the middle. Should have reshoved all-in on flop imo but would not have affected the outcome.

Hand 3 - you have 2nd nut flush draw, u/d nut str8 draw and 2 over cards on flop - a strong hand - but at these limits if you miss you wont be able to turn your hand into a bluff as you probably get called.

I think flop bet size is fine.

Not sure why shoving turn to a card that shouldn't change anything. Flop call should have you thinking you are probably behind, albeit with lots of outs. I would check/call here rather than shove, although it is likely you are still favourite against a pair which means there is justification for leading out.

Hand 4 - looks pretty post flop although it is just 2nd pair as it stands albeit with inside str8 draw and nut flush draw.

There is already a reraise when it comes back to you with 2 still to act - personally I am calling not reraising.
Definitely not shoving the turn.

Overall: You have said it yourself - multiple callers preflop can be a nightmare post flop.

As long as you have a good starting hand range and raise/reraise appropriately preflop you should find it easier postflop.

You need to have good solid made hands/nut draws against multi opponents, or some strength and/or decent draws v one opponent for it to be worth getting aggressive post flop.

Read up on outs and pot odds to help work out appropriate bet sizes if you think you are drawing or your opponent is. Hand 3 would be a good example to practice on.

If opponent has made a pair with the board - how many outs do you have and what therefore is a sensible bet size to make / limit for you to call off if you check?

Try to pick out opponents for how they play - what sort of hands are they happy to call a preflop raise with. How good a hand to they need to call a flop bet - do they chase draws at the wrong odds. Do they call down every street with 2nd/3rd pair etc.

Also to help us help you it is better if you give your rationale for your thinking around your own bets/opponent bets - answers will be more specific to your game then. Answers will probably be shorter too!

Lambert180

Forget about people 'trapping', especially when often they're not. If you have a note they will slowplay X, Y and Z then you just have to include different hands in their range when you're deciding what action to take.

Hand 1 - Much bigger pre, and much bigger on the flop. Not sure why you've went below half pot on the flop, then you go full pot on the turn, then go tiny on the river :S Keep your bets (generally) in the region of 65-80% of the pot. We can adjust in some situations, making exploitable changes against people we know won't exploit us, like cbetting smaller when we've missed cos we think they just won't notice, or betting massive, like close to pot against stations who won't fold any made hand etc but generally 65-80% of the pot nearly all the time imo. He didn't trap you, you just got unlucky.

Hand 2 - I'd raise the flop cos it's a wet flop and I'd have been raising the cbet if that's all that had happened, the allin is barely even a raise and is prob going with any pair so I'd just ignore him being there and raise the cbet as normal. Don't know what you're thinking on the turn though... we flat the flop to disguise the strength of our hand, right? Then we just shove the turn into 3 people. Either way, cooler.

Hand 3 - Don't shove the turn, you're just gonna get snapped off my so many hands that have us beat, and now it's the turn we probably don't have enough equity against them. Just continue to bet regular sized bets, and if you have to c/f a missed river cos you think he's never folding, then so be it, you saved yourself 25xBB

Hand 4 - Meh, with so many people in the pot, I definitely don't like cold 3betting the flop. If you do wanna 3bet the flop, then I think it shuold be a shove to make sure you get it in when your equity is massive. Again this isn't really a trap, they flopped the world, raised the flop and called off a 3bet which to me looks pretty obvious that they are NEVER folding their hand.

craigcu12

when I do the raise preflop the hand ranges I put my opponents on the majority of the times are are Axo, Kxo, any two suited cards sometimes connecting cards 78o+ and hands which have both cards 10 or higher even the premium pairs and AK AQ and KQ will be just called by a lot of villians preflop.

the general play with villians seems to be a hit miss where they will call to see the flop but if they miss they fold.
when they have a hand they normally wait for the turn and if the hand is decent enough they might raise the turn or min bet then reraise although some will just wait until the river which I think could be as they worried about the flush draws.

in instances like hand 1, could i be playing my hand backwards?
should be be that preflop and the flop are where i charge the draws and on the turn take a more weak approach with my bet size because my general feeling is that villians who semi bluff are rare on nl4 the villians if a raise is made the raise will be min raise and most the stone cold bluff on the river that i see made are very weak bets. If i was in position with the AA maybe a bigger bet could be done on the turn because with position i have a better idea of where i am by the river.

with hand 4 that was a hand i use to describe the way i can avoid loosing so much because when he raised i was thinking to myself right away he most likely has Ax two pair set or QJ because he raised. the reason behind my 4bet on the flop was i was wanting to get the best of value in while they might expect to be ahead because i do notice a lot of times if the 3rd flush comes even a weak bet can scare lots of villians away i understand it was a mistake me not shipping it in on the flop rather than 4betting and maybe what i am thinking is a small donk bet could have worked better.