Meh

gazza127

BH tournament...

Villain has dry shoved the last 4 hands... everybody is just waiting for any sort of respectable hand to call him with as he is a complete loose cannon shoving any two cards - had notes on him before and he didnt dissapoint.  Other hand he showed was Q10os.

Other villain... not sure about, but did sharkscope before and his stats are very average across about 1000 games (break even), including a few big wins so its not too hard to see him calling with worse.

Is there any argument for shoving here to isolate or is it just not worth it even for two big bounties and a chip lead so early in the tournament?  Villain 2 probably looks commited to his hand but im well aware I could be miles ahead of even his range given the range assigned to mr loose cannon.  Obv calling pre is bad.  Shove/Fold territory.

azzaluf05	Small blind		10.00	10.00	8030.00
gazza127	Big blind		20.00	30.00	3980.00
	Your hole cards	Q A
anglerfish	Fold
River_Fox	Raise		60.00	90.00	3680.00
villain 1 - loose cannon	All-in		1460.00	1550.00	0.00
Unknown	Call		1460.00	3010.00	2510.00
gazzaluf05	Fold
gazza127	?

DOHHHHHHH

Shove, expect to be called 100% by 'unknown' & be in v good shape.

Edit, in my limited experience of bounty hunters it's this type of call by unknown that gives them the rep' of being 'bingo tournys'.

tbh I'm more worried about river foxs' 3x than the unknown guy here.

Expect to see all sorts of rubbish.

hhyftrftdr

Think it's an easy raise to about 3975, then go from there depending on the action.

Even though we can be in great shape, we have the bare minimum in the pot and in this type of BH (much deeper/slower than the average Sky BH), I think I'm laying this down.

Unless I'm in pure gamble mode, then ship it!

gazza127

In Response to Re: Meh:

Think it's an easy raise to about 3975, then go from there depending on the action. Even though we can be in great shape, we have the bare minimum in the pot and in this type of BH (much deeper/slower than the average Sky BH), I think I'm laying this down. Unless I'm in pure gamble mode, then ship it!
Posted by hhyftrftdr

Lol.

F_Ivanovic

You're running bad, therefor I fold :P 

Even though people should be calling lighter I find that often times they still only call with a super tight range. I mean you beat AJ but I think everything else that he calls with you're behind against. Sometimes crushed, other times racing vs 99s through Jacks. So yeah I wouldn't gamble here w/o knowing that the unknown will definitely call very light.

Lambert180

If it's like £11 BH or smaller, I ship

hhyftrftdr

In Response to Re: Meh:

If it's like £11 BH or smaller, I ship
Posted by Lambert180

It's the 9pm £55 one (I think). 

NColley

if ur playing to have a gamble, then go ahead stick 200bb in pf with AQ, gl to you sir.

if u have the intention of playing good solid poker and are confident in with ur abilities enough to believe you have an edge, then pass up this spot imo.

gazza127

In Response to Re: Meh:

if ur playing to have a gamble, then go ahead stick 200bb in pf with AQ, gl to you sir. if u have the intention of playing good solid poker and are confident in with ur abilities enough to believe you have an edge, then pass up this spot imo.
Posted by NColley

Yeah im afraid this didnt remotely cross my mind at the time.

Thought process was villain has nothing.... unknown knows he has nothing and has called light... i possibly have both dominated, if not im flipping at a better price than I would do in a HU pot.

So yeah I shipped it.


Hands shown

Rags for villain - dont even remember what is was it was just awful.
Unknown had Aces and I realised how foolish I had been taking such a big risk so early.

But interesting to see that a fair few people dont mind the ship... so at least im not the only one going broke.

DOHHHHHHH

Res O ftl Gaza :P

You knew AA was part of his range before making the call, just ul to run into it.

fwiw I didn't know this was a £55 BH when I posted. And yes, ofc it makes a difference.

ul

BorinLoner

In Response to Re: Meh:

Res O ftl Gaza :P You knew AA was part of his range before making the call, just ul to run into it. fwiw I didn't know this was a £55 BH when I posted. And yes, ofc it makes a difference. ul
Posted by DOHHHHHHH

+1

If we had a good read that the guy could be light, it's a good spot to get it in. If we run into the top of his range, so be it.

In a vacuum it's a clear fold. Given your reads, it looks like a great spot to get it in. Just whether your reads are good or not that you need to worry about. We think these guys should be calling wider, but do we know that they are doing? If we think so, then get it in and no regrets about running into AA.

gazza127

In Response to Re: Meh:

In Response to Re: Meh : +1 If we had a good read that the guy could be light, it's a good spot to get it in. If we run into the top of his range, so be it. In a vacuum it's a clear fold. Given your reads, it looks like a great spot to get it in. Just whether your reads are good or not that you need to worry about. We think these guys should be calling wider, but do we know that they are doing? If we think so, then get it in and no regrets about running into AA.
Posted by BorinLoner

Fair enough.  I was honestly expecting unknown to call with even KQs Ax type hands and middle pairs a lot as the initial shover had been getting on the tables nerves a bit by shoving every hand.  I certainly got a bit fed up and was waiting to snap him off in the bb but then unknown called and... well the rest is history!

F_Ivanovic

I find that often times they still only call with a super tight range.

AA is definitely in that super tight range category :P But yeah in future if you get a similar spot know that most people will still only call really tight in every position but maybe the BB. Since they always have a worry of someone behind them waking up with a monster. How quick BTN called might be a tell as well.

gazza127

In Response to Re: Meh:

AA is definitely in that super tight range category :P But yeah in future if you get a similar spot know that most people will still only call really tight in every position but maybe the BB. Since they always have a worry of someone behind them waking up with a monster. How quick BTN called might be a tell as well.
Posted by F_Ivanovic

He didnt snap put it that way.

rancid

mmmm prob fold
don't think vill is ever folding

NColley

The argument against 'unknown' having a wide range is the fact riverfox opened... we can hypothesise that riverfox knows that the fish is shoving and so we know that 'unknown' knows that riverfox knows this, and so ranges are going to be generally a bit tighter then for example in a £5 BH where 'unknown' is probably turning up with K4s or JTo or pocket 3s.