Omaha - A drawing game?

VespaPX

Good morning all,

I've been dabbling in PLO & PLO8 DYM's for a couple of months now with mixed fortunes.

I have read a lot about Omaha being a drawing game, but can this really apply to DYM's as the key to these is survival and preserving your chips.

You can quite easily throw away too many chips chasing draws that don't hit that often.

I usually see a few flops early on whilst blinds are low, but invariably at this stage you can only win small pots.

Any thoughts / advice please.

Cheers
Mick

Lambert180

I'm not very good at PLO/PLO8 but I believe the point about them being drawing games is that where you get value from your hands generally isn't the river, it's the flop and turn when people will pay to draw. It's less likely you'll get value on the river cos people can't draw anymore (they know if they've made their hand or not now) and because generally on the river in PLO people are only calling bets/raises with pretty nutty hands so getting paid on the river often includes someone being coolered/someone not knowing what they're doing.

Position is important in NLHE and from what I hear, it's even more important in PLO, this allows us to be able to decide whether we wanna take free cards on flop/turn or not.

Talon

 First of all couple of very good points by lambert there. Position is vital in PLO. And the less well known point about river value. In nlhe you can get 4 streets of value from someone but normally in PLO it is only 3 because they normally shut down on a river brick.


  As far as the drawing aspect is concerned. It is very much a drawing game but the common mistake is for people to have only one draw going. The most important key here is the word and. You dont want to be playing with just an oesd or just the nfd. You should be looking more for things like oesd and top 2. Oesd and the nfd. This way you are likely to be favourite even against a made hand. Also the thing to avoid is calling on a draw. Calling like that flags our hand to the opponent and means we are not liable to get paid when we hit because all draws coming in are quite visible. So it is better to bet or raise on the draw which as always gives us the 2 chances of winning.

 For this to happen we need to be focusing on our starting hands and be looking for hands that work together very well. Avoiding hands that just have a pair or just  a couple of disconnected draws.

 Good hands are AAKQds    9TJQds  so many ways of winning and so many boards that can be hit.

 Caution hands are KK83r   QQ72r. Look pretty but unless we flop set then run away and even then might not be good.

 Bad hands are. K722r  AK76r. Very hard to hit these big enough to win and will just cost chips to chase.

  To further my point. If you have a hand of As Kd  Ts 9d and the flop comes down  Js Qs 2d. I would not be calling any bet her but trying desperatelt to get every chip i have over the line and would not care about opponents holding, gladly taking on top set here.

  An ideal flop in omaha gives you the nuts plus extensions plus redraws but this doesnt happen often enough so just make sure you have as much of the deck working for you as possible and if you can lots of draws going at the same time.

ajs4385

Easiest example is being dealt kk,

In holdem you are looking to get it all in as soon as possible

In omaha it is simply a top set draw. Its also a easy fold pre if you are dealt say kk84 rainbow

Tikay10

In Response to Re: Omaha - A drawing game?:

Easiest example is being dealt kk, In holdem you are looking to get it all in as soon as possible In omaha it is simply a top set draw. Its also a easy fold pre if you are dealt say kk84 rainbow
Posted by ajs4385

Boom!

We fold K-K-8-4 pre-flop unless we are in the BB & get to see the flop for free.
 
Effectively, we need to hit a 2 outer to win with this. You'd need to be pretty brave to call a river shove with 1 pair in Omaha.

Tikay10

In Response to Omaha - A drawing game?:

Good morning all, I've been dabbling in PLO & PLO8 DYM's for a couple of months now with mixed fortunes. I have read a lot about Omaha being a drawing game, but can this really apply to DYM's as the key to these is survival and preserving your chips. You can quite easily throw away too many chips chasing draws that don't hit that often. I usually see a few flops early on whilst blinds are low, but invariably at this stage you can only win small pots. Any thoughts / advice please. Cheers Mick
Posted by VespaPX

I think you make a good point there, Mick.

In truth, a shallow-stacked DYM is NOT the ideal vehicle for PLO or PLO8 simply because the very nature of those 2 games requires us to play "deep" so that we can realise the equity of our hands by playing them optimally.

You cannot really do this beyond Level 4 or 5 of a DYM, when we have an average stack which is likely to be 5 or 6 Bigs. However.....the fact we play so shallow means that ANYONE can win these, because playing shallow changes everything. So that's a good thing.  

JockBMW

A point to remember in Omaha DYM's is that most people that play them have a hold'em mentality.  If you see someone reasing pre, chances are they are holding AAxx  or KKxx, 

In pot limit there is a good chance of seeing a flop relatively cheaply even with a raise.  Once the flop comes down you have a good idea if you're beating AAxx or KKxx, then you can play accordingly.

Also serial pre flop raisers in this game rarely last to the money. let them burn themselves out and try and avoid getting into pots with them unless you have multi draws to the nutz, as per Talons point 

TeddyBloat

What happens when it gets to the shove stage then? Do those AAxx KKxx hands go up in value as they are made? would you be able to call a shove with QJ98ds when you're shallow?

would love to dip into this format, seems like you need to brains two play it though...

Cheers, 

TEDDY

VespaPX

In Response to Re: Omaha - A drawing game?:

In Response to Omaha - A drawing game? : I think you make a good point there, Mick. In truth, a shallow-stacked DYM is NOT the ideal vehicle for PLO or PLO8 simply because the very nature of those 2 games requires us to play "deep" so that we can realise the equity of our hands by playing them optimally. You cannot really do this beyond Level 4 or 5 of a DYM, when we have an average stack which is likely to be 5 or 6 Bigs. However.....the fact we play so shallow means that ANYONE can win these, because playing shallow changes everything. So that's a good thing.  
Posted by Tikay10

Thanks TK
This is what i was trying to get to the bottom of, playing Omaha in DYM's.

Cheers

VespaPX

Great replys so far , thanks guys.

Tikay10

In Response to Re: Omaha - A drawing game?:

What happens when it gets to the shove stage then? Do those AAxx KKxx hands go up in value as they are made? would you be able to call a shove with QJ98ds when you're shallow? would love to dip into this format, seems like you need to brains two play it though... Cheers,  TEDDY
Posted by TeddyBloat

At the shoving stage - which every DYM reaches - they increase in value, simple because, as in all forms of poker, it is easier to shove with anything than to call all-in with a marginal.

Playing deep, we ALWAYS take a flop with Q-J-9-8 DS, & we let go if we don't flop well. Playing shallow, no, be tough to CALL with that sort of hand, because we are playing too shallow.
 
Incidentally.......

A-A-6-5 (no suits) would be only a very tiny favourite (51%-49%) over Q-J-9-8 DS. I'd prefer to have the 10 in my hand though, we can't make a straight unless a 10 (or 5) appears somewhere.

rancid

I have fallen in love with PLO high.


nice post Talon

shame we can't get more cash tables running - viva la revolution

IDONKCALLU

omaha dyms   more action sit back n cash  

double suited in omaha is key if u got double suited holding big + and connecting cards that work 2getha  89  jq for instance can hit straights 

i love people that play aa when does 1 pair win in omaha never but people play as if aa is the nuts as tikay would say i give these people a big kiss lol 

Wilhelm

I play Omaha like this.