Omaha progression - and advice...

DOHHHHHHH

Played a 10p 20p table last night and turned £20 into £209 at 1 point before flopping top set, and losing 30 quid to an over pair and fd, he hit his bigger set...But a few things I noticed playing at a 'higher' level than 2p/4p.

Firstly....Disguising hands...

Is there any room to be creative in omaha, with bet sizing, check raising, with strong hands?
The hand I described above, when I made a set and bet out the pot, the fella sat next to me wrote in the chatbox ...

                             "that'll be top set again then" - And of course it was.

How can I avoid this?

Secondly....Bluffing/stealing pots....

I now believe there is much more scope for this than I was first told. I find if a pot is checked to me on the river, the fella almost certainly doesnt want to put anymore money in the pot! He would do it himself if he did. I stole so many pots when my oppo shut down. Maybe this is wrong but because of the range of hands I have....they have to fold!

I was maybe a little hasty at my initial thoughts on the game. (again, this post isnt results orientated as I won in my first game but still had a pop!) There is a little more skill in reading the game and finding spots to nik pots and build a stack(cash).

If anyone can help/advise me with the issue of disguising hands and getting value, bet sizes etc, wud be much appreciated!

Thanx, DOHH

ACESOVER8s

See Dohhh your coming round lol

Your right because your range is so big you can bluff into people on the river (generally you can get called down by the flush draw and steal it on the end if they don't hit). Disguising hands is a little more difficult i think as you are leaving yourself open to the re-draw, but obviously you could put in half pot bets hoping they will attempt to re-raise you off it so you can come over the top. You are walking a fine line to disguise your hand on the flop though as the nuts is only temp in this game

Glad your enjoying the game though dohhhh. This is the cash game of choice by many of the top pro's so there is def a skill to it (and some say probably more so than Texas)

You also have to remember that most players on here are new to omaha, maybe you should put yourself up against soem regular players on a site where Omaha is established and see if you can pick up any thing from them (not that i'm trying to promote other sites of course lol)

Talon

  The disguising of a hand is just as easy in omaha as in texas. If you are going to bet out on a flop make it the same everytime, be it half pot or pot. But you need to be doing it with not just top set but nutflush draws and oesd. Also if you bet out on a draw and your opponent folds show your hand, to show that you will bet out wothout a made hand. In the hand you talked about with the top set, in texas you would be up against overpair or flush draw or straight draw, whereas in omaha you could be up against all of them in one hand. Top set is good but you need to house it up, or have a redraw of your own to back it up to feel really confident.

chrisbhoy

i was on that table with you yesterday and you were unstoppable!!!
beating me twice when i had up n down stright, over pair, flush draw lol
what i liked about your play was that you were makin us pay to hit our draws. which none of us could do. you will get games like that but also games where every1 else hits their draws.But it was all good since i finished second in the 500 guaranteed at 7.15 for a nice ton.
and with regards to what talon has said i couldnt agree more. always be careful if you dont have the nut flush draw and if you hit top set wait till house appears as the outdraws you get in omaha make it a fishers paradise

DOHHHHHHH

Ok lads thanx for replying.....so I flop top set Jacks, 2 hearts on the board, I have no re draw, apart from to a house....

So I have JJ.....

Flop ...   Jx 10h, 4h..... I have to bet the pot, so I do....

Not sure if this is exactly how it happened.....but he re pops me for the pot....

Now....do I call and try and house up, or go all in now? - surely impossible to fold....altho as a beginner that might be wrong too....

If I call, and dont make anything on the turn, I check, he bets, I have to go fishing anyway? Is the betting lead irrelevant in omaha? Momentum? Honest only played twice really do appreciate ya help!

Chris n Talon particuarly interested in ur responses....As u were there when it happened....Thanx Aces over too, Im not so sure if ur trying to promote other sites or just lose me money! lol

Thanx, DOHH

MereNovice

If your opponent has a hand like Ah9hKcQc or AhJhKcQc which is the best he can be against you, I think, then you are just slightly the wrong side of a coin flip.
There aren't many cards that you're going to like apart from a J so get your money in now and make double sure that you get it to HU.
If he has overbet a smaller set then you want to get the money in before the turn and river cards scare you both.

Talon

 I believe the flop was Jx 8h 4h and your opponent had QxQh10h. which gave him 2 qeenns 8 hearts and 3 nines to hit. With 13 outs he was not particularly an under dog in the hand despit being so far behind. The main thing to remember in omaha is that the winning hands usually start at straights and easily involve house vs house. Because of this top set is strong but by no means invulnerable. What you ideally need before committing heavily to a pot is at least 2 hands that are still live and drawing close to the nuts. In this case you were putting all your money on one hand whereas your opponent was putting theirs on several.It is a game of redraws and so you must accept that this will happen and is not a rare thing for nuts to be overturned by the river.You got your money in good and were unlucky to be called by a guy who had all the cards you didnt want to see.Most of the time your bet would get through or flat called on a draw. Just accept it as a regular thing in the game and remember to try to have redraws of your own

DOHHHHHHH

So u commit urselef to the hand then Talon? HE's equivelent of a crying call?

Dnt like it but what else can ya do?

ATM it seems the only pots I win r the ones im bluffing at! Not moaning tho I love it

I think it was the advice sum1 said on here o0r in the chatbox "NEVER BLUFF" That put me off!

U gota be joking ant ya????

Thanx as always bud, DOHH!

IRISHROVER

seems i have hit the ground running,
 
with this cash omaha small stakes,

i am really enjoying it ,

and a bonus i am making cash ,

i would like a couple of examples if possible,

on good and bad starting hands,

would very much be appreciated

Talon

In Response to Re: Omaha progression - and advice...:

seems i have hit the ground running,   with this cash omaha small stakes, i am really enjoying it , and a bonus i am making cash , i would like a couple of examples if possible, on good and bad starting hands, would very much be appreciated
Posted by IRISHROVER

  The thing to remember about starting hands is that althought here are really bad ones ther are no hands that are so much better than any others. In texas AA is so superior but there is no hand like that in omaha.

 The key thing to is to count how many good/playable texas hands you have within your starting hand. As you know all omaha starting hands can be divided in to 6 texas hands so a hand like
    10sJsQdKd      gives you 6 good hands, whereas
    6s9dAcAs       gives you only 1

  The most common error that is transferred over from texas is the overrating of pocket pairs. The second hand shown most people will raise with thinking it is great because of the AA but unless you hit an ace that hand will turn into nothing very quickly.

   Connecting cards play very well, as do suited. So learn to love those suited connectors.
   3 gaps straightening cards should be avoided at all costs except A10
   Drawing hands you need to be drawing close to the nuts so you want
   If possible play hands that include at least 3 good starting hands

IRISHROVER

In Response to Re: Omaha progression - and advice...:

In Response to Re: Omaha progression - and advice... :   The thing to remember about starting hands is that althought here are really bad ones ther are no hands that are so much better than any others. In texas AA is so superior but there is no hand like that in omaha.  The key thing to is to count how many good/playable texas hands you have within your starting hand. As you know all omaha starting hands can be divided in to 6 texas hands so a hand like     10sJsQdKd      gives you 6 good hands, whereas     6s9dAcAs       gives you only 1   The most common error that is transferred over from texas is the overrating of pocket pairs. The second hand shown most people will raise with thinking it is great because of the AA but unless you hit an ace that hand will turn into nothing very quickly.    Connecting cards play very well, as do suited. So learn to love those suited connectors.    3 gaps straightening cards should be avoided at all costs except A10    Drawing hands you need to be drawing close to the nuts so you want    If possible play hands that include at least 3 good starting hands
Posted by Talon

ty talon for the advice ,

i wish i could give you 10o/o of my winnings  lol,

seems you sure know this game ,

your Irish m8 rover.

IRISHROVER

well i just had talon on my omaha no limit small cash stakes table,

i got buckets of great advice on my play,

i learned more in the 2 hours by his observations ,

then i could learn in a month of my own mistakes,

i believe you saved me a lot of cash going forward ,

i just like to say a big huge ty ,

you are a great adviser and poster on here ,

i now wish to put your name forward for sky blogger.

please note anyone who wishes to also support talon,
 
can do so in the thread that skyrich set up,

the name of thread is :

blog -1V we want you