interesting spot live 88 on button

GELDY

6 handed with 12 left
big stack limps utg+1
sb has less than 10 bigs
I have 25 bigs on button with 88

what to do?

GELDY

reads are big stack is happy to get it in with an ok hand
sb was the chip leader recently but me and the big stack have been taking them
6 paid

DoubleAAA

Does big stack limp big hands? what are your reads on him? You've got position and a decent hand, we have to raise here.  If we are holding a big hand and sb is likely to squeeze I would flat to induce sb to shove, but like I said that is only if we have a big hand.

GELDY

Big stack looks like he is trapping
25 bigs is a large stack in this mtt at this stage

cenachav

If he looks like he's trapping then limp behind to set mine or just fold and wait for a better spot

DOHHHHHHH

raise 3xbb, sigh call sb, fold to backraise from utg.

BorinLoner

In Response to Re: interesting spot live 88 on button:

raise 3xbb, sigh call sb, fold to backraise from utg.
Posted by DOHHHHHHH

This is good readless but we believe the limper is likely to be trapping, so why raise?

I agree with cenachav that limping behind is best if we're sure that the limper is strong. Are we really sure of that, though? We can fold if we think the short stack is liable to shove this spot a lot. So what are our reads on the shorty?

DOHHHHHHH

In Response to Re: interesting spot live 88 on button:

In Response to Re: interesting spot live 88 on button : This is good readless but we believe the limper is likely to be trapping, so why raise? I agree with cenachav that limping behind is best if we're sure that the limper is strong. Are we really sure of that, though? We can fold if we think the short stack is liable to shove this spot a lot. So what are our reads on the shorty?
Posted by BorinLoner

In Response to Re: interesting spot live 88 on button:

Big stack looks like he is trapping 25 bigs is a large stack in this mtt at this stage
Posted by GELDY

Is this some sort of a live tell? a gut feeling?

Or have we seen him do it before?

If so, does he only limp monsters? Is he limping wide enough for an iso-raise to be correct? (he calls with worse often & plays weak post flop, or just folds pre)?

If we feel he's limping to backraise then ofc my initial suggestion of raising would be terrible.

Would need to know more about the strength of this read/tell though.

BorinLoner

Are you trying to revive "backraising", DOHHHHHHH? lol

DOHHHHHHH

In Response to Re: interesting spot live 88 on button:

Are you trying to revive "backraising", DOHHHHHHH? lol
Posted by BorinLoner

Having spent the last 6 months grinding over in France, I'm more familiar with the backraise than I am the standard 3x open!

Did he have a twirly tache?

Jac35

You've pretty much answered this yourself Geldy.

I guess that you limped along and either

1 - the short stack shoved, utg called and you folded or

2 - the short stack shoved, utg folded and you called.

That's how I would have played this one based on your reads anyway

GELDY

Jac,

yep that is what i did

sb shoved A rag

utg+1 called with AJ

I folded

i didn't want to flip at best vs the big stack at that stage - but interested in what others would do

saved it for the hu where 33<55 left me in 2nd

DOHHHHHHHH

no tache, just a live gut

he would normally raise if first to act so the limp set tha alarm bells ringing

F_Ivanovic

More often than not someone that limps that usually raises isn't trapping - they usually have a decent strength hand that will happily get it in vs a short stack but will play it cautiously facing aggression from another big stack. Only exception to this is if there was pre-flop raising going on every hand in which case they might decide to trap with a big hand. 

I think I prefer a raise though providing you haven't been too active - SB will most likely shove any hand that he would shove had it been limped round. But when you raise and SB shoves it's a lot harder for UTG to call since he knows we have a hand. Whereas when we just limp OTB it's much easier for UTG to call the shove with A9-AJ/KQ/55-77 hands since we are so rarely limping with a big hand OTB. If UTG doesn't like to fold though and it's likely he'll still call SB's shove even when we've raised then I guess limping is probably OK.

GELDY

In Response to Re: interesting spot live 88 on button:

More often than not someone that limps that usually raises isn't trapping - they usually have a decent strength hand that will happily get it in vs a short stack but will play it cautiously facing aggression from another big stack. Only exception to this is if there was pre-flop raising going on every hand in which case they might decide to trap with a big hand.  I think I prefer a raise though providing you haven't been too active - SB will most likely shove any hand that he would shove had it been limped round. But when you raise and SB shoves it's a lot harder for UTG to call since he knows we have a hand. Whereas when we just limp OTB it's much easier for UTG to call the shove with A9-AJ/KQ/55-77 hands since we are so rarely limping with a big hand OTB. If UTG doesn't like to fold though and it's likely he'll still call SB's shove even when we've raised then I guess limping is probably OK.
Posted by F_Ivanovic

Thanks

I have seen JJ & AK limped at a similar stage in recent tournaments. so whether more often than not i don't know but enough that i would like to play cautiously the first time he does it. And I did fear he would call the sb regardless.