Why does this happen to me?

Waddell93

layer	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
Waddell93	Small blind		£0.02	£0.02	£2.16
cullen53	Big blind		£0.04	£0.06	£3.96
	Your hole cards	J K
jasp3315	Fold
Higgy41	Fold
simonnatur	Raise		£0.12	£0.18	£4.90
Nastasiic	Call		£0.12	£0.30	£5.68
Waddell93	Call		£0.10	£0.40	£2.06
cullen53	Raise		£0.32	£0.72	£3.64
simonnatur	Call		£0.24	£0.96	£4.66
Nastasiic	Call		£0.24	£1.20	£5.44
Waddell93	Call		£0.24	£1.44	£1.82
Flop
		A K K
Waddell93	Check
cullen53	Bet		£1.44	£2.88	£2.20
simonnatur	Fold
Nastasiic	Fold
Waddell93	All-in		£1.82	£4.70	£0.00
cullen53	Call		£0.38	£5.08	£1.82
Waddell93	Show	J K
cullen53	Show	Q Q
Turn
		6
River
		Q
cullen53	Win	Full House, Queens and Kings	£4.69		£6.51

Slipwater

Unlucky.

But if you play poker all your life and this doesn't happen a thousand times over, you ain't doin' it right.

BorinLoner

There's nothing wrong with losing your stack post-flop, I think.

However, one thing we should be trying to do is sit with the maximum amount - 100 big blinds - which at this table would be £4.

If we're going to play a shorter stack than that, it needs to be with a specific intention of using our shorter stack to exploit our opponents. If we don't have a particular reason for sitting relatively short stacked, we're better off sitting with 100BB.


Pre-flop is debateable. KJ does have some considerable reverse implied odds when we're out of position. That basically means that a lot of the time we'll hit our hand when someone else has hit bigger and stacks us. So AK, AJ, KQ type hands could be out there a lot of the time. The first call isn't all that bad but, because we're so short stacked relative to the amount we're being asked to call, we probably shouldn't be calling the 3-bet (re-raise).

So I think we can probably fold pre-flop but post-flop, with our stack size and having hit trips, we can't really fold. In fact, we got it in way ahead... and lost anyway. Unlucky but that's part of the game.

Waddell93

In Response to Re: Why does this happen to me?:

There's nothing wrong with losing your stack post-flop, I think. However, one thing we should be trying to do is sit with the maximum amount - 100 big blinds - which at this table would be £4. If we're going to play a shorter stack than that, it needs to be with a specific intention of using our shorter stack to exploit our opponents. If we don't have a particular reason for sitting relatively short stacked, we're better off sitting with 100BB. Pre-flop is debateable. KJ does have some considerable reverse implied odds when we're out of position. That basically means that a lot of the time we'll hit our hand when someone else has hit bigger and stacks us. So AK, AJ, KQ type hands could be out there a lot of the time. The first call isn't all that bad but, because we're so short stacked relative to the amount we're being asked to call, we probably shouldn't be calling the 3-bet (re-raise). So I think we can probably fold pre-flop but post-flop, with our stack size and having hit trips, we can't really fold. In fact, we got it in way ahead... and lost anyway. Unlucky but that's part of the game.
Posted by BorinLoner

********************************

Thanks for the post

Can i explain that i had already sat 100 bb's 4 times prior to this and lost my stacks 4 times over. I have found that the low level tables here are 'loose' at best and as per hand history's i have posted here and elsewhere, im running bad at the minute. (i get them in 70/30 or 80/20 and lose! and forget the 50/50's not a chance!) Therefore, up against it, in this situation i am not folding to other players three bets, which have been consistantly light holdings, im not raising because i cant win all in as favorite, so the call to the see flop, was my plan. (hope that makes sense)  

That said, all the poker training,advise or experience does not change the need for your holdings to stand strong! 

LARSON7

Ul in the hand, but i would say fold pre, given the pre flop action.

If you wantto win at 4nl basically play a tight aggressive style of poker.

Once you have that conquered, you can start playing a bit looser and see what works, or does not work for you.

Post flop in this hand you are just ul, pre flop you should never have been involved in the hand.

Playing at 4nl you always want to be the aggressor, if you are shown resistance then you need to rethink how strong your hand is 1 pair will never be good when some shows you aggression.

I'll caveat that by saying most of the time, clearly if it's a maniac that is a bit different but they are easy to spot, and 95% of the time if someone shows you aggression  then they have the goods. Good luck

Waddell93

In Response to Re: Why does this happen to me?:

Ul in the hand, but i would say fold pre, given the pre flop action. If you wantto win at 4nl basically play a tight aggressive style of poker. Once you have that conquered, you can start playing a bit looser and see what works, or does not work for you. Post flop in this hand you are just ul, pre flop you should never have been involved in the hand. Playing at 4nl you always want to be the aggressor, if you are shown resistance then you need to rethink how strong your hand is 1 pair will never be good when some shows you aggression. I'll caveat that by saying most of the time, clearly if it's a maniac that is a bit different but they are easy to spot, and 95% of the time if someone shows you aggression  then they have the goods. Good luck
Posted by LARSON7

**************

Thanks for the reply Larson, and tbh lately i must be the maniac at the table! so i think some adjustments are needed.  

Thanks again. 

hhyftrftdr

Calling pre initially is fine, as long as we don't become too attached should we hit sideways. It's when it's raised up again that we should be laying this down, we simply aren't playing deep enough to peel, and will be out of position vs 3better, plus villain is likely to be very strong after opening up the betting again into 3 oppo's pre flop.

And always look to play with the maximum.

The_Don90

There is a really good guide on low level cash its worth a read. It is old but its still the most useful guide for a new player imo. 

I will have a look and see if i can find the link, if I can't I'm sure someone else will 

Edit: Teddybloat has put it in your other thread. Well worth a read

peter27

I'm not a cash player, but personally I would have just called cullen53's bet on the flop, rather than jamming. There is a good chance you jamming could have scared him off into a fold - and you'd be missing out on value. As it was anyway, you lost the pot - but you wern't to know that on the flop.

hhyftrftdr

In Response to Re: Why does this happen to me?:

I'm not a cash player, but personally I would have just called cullen53's bet on the flop, rather than jamming. There is a good chance you jamming could have scared him off into a fold - and you'd be missing out on value. As it was anyway, you lost the pot - but you wern't to know that on the flop.
Posted by peter27

Not really Peter. Villain bet an amount that they then couldn't fold to a shove; having to call like 40p into a £4.50 pot or something (don't know exact figures). 

Pre flop is iffy, but post is fine. Calling the flop bet would be poor, easy spot to ship. 

It's a really poor c-bet from villain, far too large and asking for trouble. Gotta exploit these mistakes at the micro levels. 

craigcu12

waddell

9 times out of 10 I would just fold KJ preflop when it has been reraised because really the only things you will be chasing now are flush and straights.
the number of times they come will not make up for the number of times you will loose money with weaker kick or lower pair.
i'm surprised the villain even did the big bet on the flop but then again this is micro level and villians are so fixed to their QQ KK and AA hand.

unlyck with it this time but the likelyhood is you would have seen the villain turn over AA AK or KQ a lot of the time.

peter27

In Response to Re: Why does this happen to me?:

In Response to Re: Why does this happen to me? : Not really Peter. Villain bet an amount that they then couldn't fold to a shove; having to call like 40p into a £4.50 pot or something (don't know exact figures).  Pre flop is iffy, but post is fine. Calling the flop bet would be poor, easy spot to ship.  It's a really poor c-bet from villain, far too large and asking for trouble. Gotta exploit these mistakes at the micro levels. 
Posted by hhyftrftdr

Very good point, I missed the stack size of the opponent. I guess that's why I'm still learning :-)