Pretty standard? FT, 4 handed

LARSON7

Pocket 7s blind on blind, pretty sure this should be a shove with 12 bigs. In saying that, if i min raise i can fold to a shove and still have 10 bigs. I know this is a bit results orientated because i lost. If i min raise, and opponent shoves i'm beat a lot of the time unless i'm racing.

Thoughts?

LARSON7Small blind 3000.003000.0072526.0059Big blind 6000.009000.00135680.20 Your hole cards77   jcooper329Fold    aceofspadeFold    LARSON7All-in 72526.0081526.000.0059Call 69526.00151052.0066154.20LARSON7Show77   59ShowQQ   Flop  54J   Turn  A   River  A   59WinTwo Pairs, Aces and Queens151052.0

LARSON7

I can't belive i got it in bad and lost, poker can be so brutal:(

hhyftrftdr

Larson, if you minraise fold 77 blind on blind with 12bb on a 4handed FT, then you should be dragged from the room and shot (as Tikay might say).

You are being totally exploited if you minraise fold here.

Jac35

Wrong section Henrik

LARSON7

In Response to Re: Pretty standard? FT, 4 handed:

Larson, if you minraise fold 77 blind on blind with 12bb on a 4handed FT, then you should be dragged from the room and shot (as Tikay might say). You are being totally exploited if you minraise fold here.
Posted by hhyftrftdr

I know, but this 1 time it would have been the right thing!

hhyftrftdr

In Response to Re: Pretty standard? FT, 4 handed:

In Response to Re: Pretty standard? FT, 4 handed : I know, but this 1 time it would have been the right thing!
Posted by LARSON7

Not the way to look at it though Henrik. Long term innit.

The_Don90

i min raise call off on some tables, others i open jam. Never min raise fold or fold tho. 

LARSON7

In Response to Re: Pretty standard? FT, 4 handed:

Wrong section Henrik
Posted by Jac35

Errrr, prob not a post for any section!

F_Ivanovic

77 isn't quite strong enough to min-r induce I don't think because most of the hands you will induce to shove will be 2 overs which we're racing against. 

hhyftrftdr

In Response to Re: Pretty standard? FT, 4 handed:

77 isn't quite strong enough to min-r induce I don't think because most of the hands you will induce to shove will be 2 overs which we're racing against. 
Posted by F_Ivanovic

I almost agree with you Ivan! Can't believe it.

Will be villain dependent. Some I'd min raise snap off, others it's a minraise sigh call. Against the latter, better to ship into them and give them a decision with their various broadway cards and raggy aces.

But the moral of the story is we can never fold.

BorinLoner

In Response to Re: Pretty standard? FT, 4 handed:

In Response to Re: Pretty standard? FT, 4 handed : I almost agree with you Ivan! Can't believe it. Will be villain dependent. Some I'd min raise snap off, others it's a minraise sigh call. Against the latter, better to ship into them and give them a decision with their various broadway cards and raggy aces. But the moral of the story is we can never fold.
Posted by hhyftrftdr

Of course there are situations to min-raise-fold.

As an example: We have a villain in the big blind who calls or folds all worse hands and only raises monsters. He folds as often to a min-raise as he does to a shove. He's going to play face-up post-flop.

Against this opponent we should min-raise-fold because we're only getting it in behind when he raises, we can be called by weaker hands but won't be peeled too wide and we'll always have easy decisions post-flop. We're not going to love bet-folding the flop to leave ourselves 8BB, but this type of villain is not going to be exploiting us.

DOHHHHHHH

Having really struggled to adapt to sky mtts last month & talked to a few of the better players here this may be a min raise/fold.

Because you don't get shoved on light.

If not 77 there certainly are some hands we can mr/fold here.

7s probably too strong.

I'd still shove. But that's maybe why I was - $400 on here last month.

fwiw +1 Ivan, it's nowhere near strong enough to induce with.

The_Don90

Who says anything about inducing. Some players (im not saying our villian as i dont know) we dont need to shove, a min raise will take it down 90% of the time. Good arguement for a min raise fold tbh actually. 

Lambert180

In Response to Re: Pretty standard? FT, 4 handed:

Who says anything about inducing. Some players (im not saying our villian as i dont know) we dont need to shove, a min raise will take it down 90% of the time. Good arguement for a min raise fold tbh actually. 
Posted by The_Don90

In Response to Re: Pretty standard? FT, 4 handed:

i min raise call off on some tables, others i open jam. Never min raise fold or fold tho. 
Posted by The_Don90

hhyftrftdr

In Response to Re: Pretty standard? FT, 4 handed:

In Response to Re: Pretty standard? FT, 4 handed : Of course there are situations to min-raise-fold. As an example: We have a villain in the big blind who calls or folds all worse hands and only raises monsters. He folds as often to a min-raise as he does to a shove. He's going to play face-up post-flop. Against this opponent we should min-raise-fold because we're only getting it in behind when he raises, we can be called by weaker hands but won't be peeled too wide and we'll always have easy decisions post-flop. We're not going to love bet-folding the flop to leave ourselves 8BB, but this type of villain is not going to be exploiting us.
Posted by BorinLoner

Ok. if I have very specific villain reads then a minraise fold isn't terrible. But this is blind on blind 4 handed. Any competent villain should be jamming pretty wide here (in a vacuum). 77 is certainly a hand of value HU so I'm looking to get it in pre, be that open shipping or raise calling off. Prefer the latter TBH, though merits to both ways.