Feedback required!

peter27

Got knocked out of the £4000 GTD UKOPS Freezeout yesterday, this was the hand, curious to know how you think I played it. No reads on opponents as I was not long registered!

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
Nssv	Small blind		50.00	50.00	4530.00
SoLack	Big blind		100.00	150.00	2831.25
	Your hole cards	K A
mrpoker919	Fold
chaskin	Fold
peter27	Raise		300.00	450.00	4250.00
Barney61	Call		300.00	750.00	8960.00
Nssv	Call		250.00	1000.00	4280.00
SoLack	Fold
Flop
		2 8 8
Nssv	Check
peter27	Bet		300.00	1300.00	3950.00
Barney61	Fold
Nssv	Call		300.00	1600.00	3980.00
Turn
		10
Nssv	Bet		1600.00	3200.00	2380.00
peter27	Call		1600.00	4800.00	2350.00
River
		J
Nssv	Check
peter27	All-in		2350.00	7150.00	0.00
Nssv	All-in		2380.00	9530.00	0.00
Nssv	Unmatched bet		30.00	9500.00	30.00
Nssv	Show	10 A
peter27	Show	K A
Nssv	Win	Two Pairs, 10s and 8s	9500.00		9530.00

In heinsight, I think I should have got away on the turn? Had a flush draw but 1600 is probably too much to call for that? The river bet was a pure bluff - it almost worked TBH, he took a long time to decide!

Phantom66

I think your flop bet is too small.

You were preflop aggressor and that is an extremely dry board.

You have bet less than a third of the pot - I would go half.

The turn is a fold/shove choice - without reads probably a fold just credit them with the strength of a pot size bet.

A shove is ok though you do have nut flush draw + 2 overcards and that would be a better spot to bluff than the river when you have no outs.

Lambert180

Yup too small on the flop, don't need to go massive cos it's a dry board but around the 500 mark is probably better.

Think we should fold the turn. As played, definitely don't bluff the river, just check and accept you're prob gonna lose the pot but still have a stack to play with.

cenachav

Pre fine.  Flop bet bigger, 600-750 ish.  Fold the pot size turn bet.  You are about 20% to hit your flush with one card to come and you are not getting the correct pot odds or implied odds with your stack size.  Definatly check back river.  You are beating all bluffs and will only get a bare 2 to fold if anything as you both only have a half pot bet left.  Oppo is getting 4/1 to make the call so should be calling fairly wide

peter27

All pretty much in agreement that the flop bet needs to be bigger, that's not something I had considered TBH ... but it does make perfect sense.

Thanks guys, very helpful! :-)

DOHHHHHHH

Right idea betting smaller on this flop texture, it gives you a better price on the cbet and also leaves yourself more ammo to use down the streets on good barrel cards.

As said above, we can't call that bet size on the turn.

It's a weird line from the villain, he isn't representing much at all but as you're readless I'd just sigh and let it go.

Think you have to give up river. There are no missed draws, (even if there were we beat most of them anyway) and I doubt he's folding any pair that he's taken this line with, especially as we have less than half pot left to fire.

Also don't fall for the 'it almost worked' or the 'I nearly folded' lines in chat.

They always say that.

And they never do!

a00rock

Bet 500 plus on flop. Fold to pot size bet on turn.

Gl mate Ray

rancid

more flop
turn is fine

check back river unless you just like to bluff

grantorino

Bet flop bigger, and be prepared to fire a lot of turns

Fold turn

Check river you have showdown value

peter27

In Response to Re: Feedback required!:

Right idea betting smaller on this flop texture, it gives you a better price on the cbet and also leaves yourself more ammo to use down the streets on good barrel cards. As said above, we can't call that bet size on the turn. It's a weird line from the villain, he isn't representing much at all but as you're readless I'd just sigh and let it go. Think you have to give up river. There are no missed draws, (even if there were we beat most of them anyway) and I doubt he's folding any pair that he's taken this line with, especially as we have less than half pot left to fire. Also don't fall for the 'it almost worked' or the 'I nearly folded' lines in chat. They always say that. And they never do!
Posted by DOHHHHHHH

I was the one saying he nearly folded, based on how long it took him to decide what to do

Pretty much everyone in agreement about how to play this, thanks guys! :-)

F_Ivanovic

Flop bet is COMPLETELY fine. Dry boards mean it's very unlikely opponents have connected so either they have something and are calling or they don't and they are folding. What's more is the stack size means we can get it in by the river if we have a value hand by betting 1/3 on the flop so there's no need to bet bigger. 

You'll be surprised by how many players will call a small bet on the flop and then fold to another small turn bet - so definitely need to be prepared to fire twice. 

As played their turn bet is really horrible to face. We don't really have any fold equity if we shove and we're not quite getting odds to call for just a flush/hitting our A/K which may or may not be good. So I think I have to fold turn. Would give up river - I think if they fold to a shove OTR it's likely we had the best hand anyway so just check back and hope we're somehow good. 

peter27

In Response to Re: Feedback required!:

Flop bet is COMPLETELY fine. Dry boards mean it's very unlikely opponents have connected so either they have something and are calling or they don't and they are folding. What's more is the stack size means we can get it in by the river if we have a value hand by betting 1/3 on the flop so there's no need to bet bigger.  You'll be surprised by how many players will call a small bet on the flop and then fold to another small turn bet - so definitely need to be prepared to fire twice.  As played their turn bet is really horrible to face. We don't really have any fold equity if we shove and we're not quite getting odds to call for just a flush/hitting our A/K which may or may not be good. So I think I have to fold turn. Would give up river - I think if they fold to a shove OTR it's likely we had the best hand anyway so just check back and hope we're somehow good. 
Posted by F_Ivanovic

That's very interesting, completely different view to most people on the flop bet size. The funny thing is both arguments make sense too ... poker can be a complicated game sometimes!

peter27

Current flop bet needs to be bigger vs Current flop bet is fine

Discuss please :-)

BigHawk89

The flop bet is fine dont see why people want to bet more. You want A high peeling and all hands that are beating you are gonna call on the flop doesnt matter how big you bet.