KK get check raised by limper OTF

craigcu12

when someone decides to open limp preflop normally i'm thinking he will be a weak player.
if he didn't open bet preflop I just don't see him attempting to semi bluff so ruled out draws.
in all honesty the only hand that I could see myself ahead of was AJ

canifold	Small blind		15.00	15.00	1715.00
foster10	Big blind		30.00	45.00	2315.00
	Your hole cards	K K
mucka44420	Fold
x	Call		30.00	75.00	1910.00
craigcu12	Raise		150.00	225.00	1850.00
canifold	Fold
foster10	Fold
x	Call		120.00	345.00	1790.00
Flop
		J 4 10
x	Check
craigcu12	Bet		345.00	690.00	1505.00
x	Raise

hhyftrftdr

Good luck getting me off that hand.

Lambert180

Be nice to actually see what he raised to but w/e I'm just getting it in readless.

craigcu12

sorry it was very early in the sat so I didn't know much about him apart from he was a limper

canifold	Small blind		15.00	15.00	1715.00
foster10	Big blind		30.00	45.00	2315.00
	Your hole cards	K K
mucka44420	Fold
ADD	Call		30.00	75.00	1910.00
craigcu12	Raise		150.00	225.00	1850.00
canifold	Fold
foster10	Fold
ADD	Call		120.00	345.00	1790.00
Flop
		J 4 10
ADD	Check
craigcu12	Bet		345.00	690.00	1505.00
ADD	Raise		690.00	1380.00	1100.00
craigcu12

hhyftrftdr

Ah the old clickback. Probs has J10 but whatever, doubt I'm folding KK here.

craigcu12

In Response to Re: KK get check raised by limper OTF:

Ah the old clickback. Probs has J10 but whatever, doubt I'm folding KK here.
Posted by hhyftrftdr

I can see where your coming from with not wanting to fold KK.
it is with him deciding to just limp pre that i'm thinking he's the strong type of hand rather than the draw heavy type hand.

also with me being a nl4 reg I see this sort of thing all the time and 9 times out of 10 it is a better hand I will see.

edit AJ was the only one I had him on that i'm ahead.

LARSON7

Hey Craig, maybe raise a bit less pre, and on the flop.

I think we are beat here too, but yeah i'd prob go with it.

Lambert180

Wow, how did I miss that!!

Pre might not be bad if we know they're just a complete station and don't limp/fold often, but going full pot on the flop is pretty bad

simonnatur

good luck winning a tourney if you think about folding that hand on that board with your stack

IDONKCALLU

standard hand u shouldnt be betting pot tho on this flop should be about 240 n shove when u get raised alot worse then kings could raise here 

The_Don90

theres just enoug draws to shove here imo.

however because we've potted his raise looks soo much stronger, then again i doupt he cares lol. meh giiim not loving it though.

craigcu12

does the size of my bets seeming to big have anything to do with being in position?
but as I do have position if he did decide to chase it I could make the fold easy if the draw hit.

the actual MTT this was from was a sat which I would think makes the odds of poor calls even greater

F_Ivanovic

Usually if I pot I don't intend on folding.

DrRunGood

im just getting it in if he has j 10 so be it but he could have so many hands here you crush. plus a lot of draws he could be playing aggro I would just re shove let him figure out if hes best

craigcu12

well the truth was J10 and 44 were the only 2 expected so went for the jam, but the hand i did not expect in the slightest was 1010.
so when i see him in the future i will know i can fold KK because he is sure to have hit extra strong if he reraises

canifold	Small blind		15.00	15.00	1715.00
foster10	Big blind		30.00	45.00	2315.00
	Your hole cards	K K
mucka44420	Fold
ADD	Call		30.00	75.00	1910.00
craigcu12	Raise		150.00	225.00	1850.00
canifold	Fold
foster10	Fold
ADD	Call		120.00	345.00	1790.00
Flop
		J 4 10
ADD	Check
craigcu12	Bet		345.00	690.00	1505.00
ADD	Raise		690.00	1380.00	1100.00
craigcu12	All-in		1505.00	2885.00	0.00
ADD	All-in		1100.00	3985.00	0.00
craigcu12	Unmatched bet		60.00	3925.00	60.00
ADD	Show	10 10
craigcu12	Show	K K
Turn
		4
River
		8
ADD	Win	Full House, 10s and 4s	3925.00		3925.00

GELDY

In Response to Re: KK get check raised by limper OTF:

so when i see him in the future i will know i can fold KK because he is sure to have hit extra strong if he reraises 
Posted by craigcu12

no you don't. you just know that he may play this way if superstrong. He may also play his draws the same way.

here is a very similar example from the Primo last night. would i play the same way next time this happens - yep. Talking heads on the show last night apparently agreed it was standard play from both of us. Although if anyone would like to differ please do.

Player	Action	Cards	Amount	Pot	Balance
AB0151	Small blind		150.00	150.00	6563.87
onelegleft	Big blind		300.00	450.00	19540.00
	Your hole cards	K K
GELDY	Raise		700.00	1150.00	8750.00
mennell941	Fold
peon	Fold
gac123	Fold
AB0151	Fold
onelegleft	Call		400.00	1550.00	19140.00
Flop
		J 9 4
onelegleft	Check
GELDY	Bet		1000.00	2550.00	7750.00
onelegleft	Raise		2000.00	4550.00	17140.00
GELDY	Raise		4250.00	8800.00	3500.00
onelegleft	Raise		6500.00	15300.00	10640.00
GELDY	All-in		3500.00	18800.00	0.00
onelegleft	Call		250.00	19050.00	10390.00
onelegleft	Show	4 4
GELDY	Show	K K
Turn
		7
River
		J
onelegleft	Win	Full House, 4s and Jacks	19050.00

The_Don90

I hate your 3b sizing (flop) geldy might aswell just shove imo. 

ul both though

hhyftrftdr

Yeah think I'd either shove or call his flop click back. 

Shove, because any J will probably pay us off, whereas raising again means we can never be bluffing and look very strong. Shipping it can give the impression we aren't as strong as we'd like to be...

Call, because it's not a bad flop for us at all and we are not playing deep. Whilst there are flush and straight draws, we can look to get it in on most turn cards and be comfortably ahead way more than often.

Just ul he flops a set. You've got like 30bb, KK and the flop is J high and you're getting action, happy days. Would need some serious history/notes/reads to not go broke here.

unknown_username

Weird spot and player dependant.

You raise has pretty much turned your hand face up so no idea why he is clicking back the set.

If i am the villian i just call every street and bomb river, unless the board runs out 4 flushing by river.  Although you paid him off, his raise is really bad.  All he does is get the bottom of your range to fold (which he crushes) and the top of your range to maybe fold (fwiw i fold here a lot vs fish as they are not thinking players and their decisions are not +EV)

The only hands i click back on the flop, as the villian, is air.  But again id only do that vs certain players that i know will fold big hands.....

What a fun game poker is to think about.....

So yeah, just fold if you think the villian is poor and jam if you think they are a thinking player